Every once in awhile, there’s a bandwagon worth jumping onto, so I’ve taken the Ice Bucket Challenge (you can see my son dousing me with my daughter filming here on YouTube) and made a donation to the ALS Association. I challenge all of the readers here to do the same. Also, if you haven’t done so already, please watch this great ESPN piece on former Boston College baseball player Pete Frates, who inspired the Ice Bucket Challenge. Onto some of the last mailbag questions of the summer:
This is referring to a list of “Winners and Losers” from the great Mr. SEC regarding the SEC Network. Generally, I agree with his overall premise: the SEC Network is going to be extremely successful and fill the coffers of the likes of Ole Miss and Mississippi State as well as the Alabamas and Floridas of the world. I’m actually more optimistic about SEC TV ratings than Mr. SEC (which he listed as a “loser”) since many of the SEC Network games will be ones that would otherwise have been in the old ESPN Regional syndication package or as part of individual schools’ third tier rights deals similar to how the BTN largely took the Big Ten’s old ESPN Regional syndication package to a national audience. The BTN hasn’t really impacted the national ratings of the best Big Ten games (and instead expanded the audience for lower tier games), so I’d expect the same with the SEC.
On the other hand, ESPN has been using a bit of puffery when it states that the SEC Network is “available” in 90 million homes. Being “available” is quite different than actually being subscribed to in those homes – the SEC Network could be “available” in a home but such home may not be able to receive it on a basic tier or without having to buy a sports pack. A network only gets a fee if it’s actually subscribed to in a home instead of being merely available. For example, the mothership ESPN itself is has nearly 100 million actual subscribers, so it’s getting $5.00 or more per month for every single one of those households. (That’s why ESPN is very literally the most powerful media company on Earth today, and that’s saying something considering that it’s part of the ubiquitous Walt Disney Company that has been eating my credit card over the past several months with a spring break trip to Disney World, buying Disney Princess, Frozen, Marvel and Star Wars toys for my kids’ birthdays, etc.)
To be sure, the BTN is just as guilty of trumpeting of the artificially high “available homes” number in many of its press releases. There will inevitably be a lot of comparisons between the SEC Network and BTN, but at the end of the day, they have similarly-sized geographic footprints where their networks are carried on basic cable on very high rates and then will be carried at lower rates and/or on sports packs outside such footprints. The SEC Network essentially gets the SEC back on more of an even TV revenue playing field with the Big Ten… at least until the Big Ten enters into brand new first tier/high second tier national TV deals in a couple of years that most observers believe will completely blow away any other college sports deal signed up to this point.
l received several questions about the Ed O’Bannon case, where the NCAA was found to be in violation of antitrust law for prohibiting players from receiving compensation for the use of their names, images and likenesses (i.e. video games, apparel, etc.).
My general feeling over the past several years is that the NCAA has been unbelievably and incredibly misguided and naive about student-athlete compensation issues. Regardless of fans’ feelings on either side of the debate about whether student-athletes should be paid, it continues to boggle my mind from a practical standpoint that the NCAA’s argument has essentially been reliant on tradition (“It has always been done this way!”) with an all-or-nothing zero sum approach. The problem is that once you find even isolated examples where players bring more than “nothing” in terms of market value, the entire crux of the argument breaks down in front of a judge. That’s exactly what occurred in the O’Bannon case.
Still, if the NCAA looks at the O’Bannon ruling from a rational practical standpoint, it’s actually a positive ruling for them where the judge allowed for a trust fund cap of $5,000 per year. Of course, the NCAA won’t look at it that way – it will continue to make the all-or-nothing zero sum argument on appeal because it doesn’t have any sense to take what was essentially a compromise ruling and run with it. Now, the NCAA opens itself up on appeal to the argument that even the $5,000 trust fund cap shouldn’t apply and there ought to be unlimited compensation available to student-athletes, which could very well happen with the liberal and labor-friendly U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit.
I’ve been fairly upfront on this blog that I’m an ardent free marketer when it comes to college sports: conferences and schools should be free to make whatever arrangements that are best for them to maximize revenue and, in turn, student-athletes should be able to seek compensation commensurate with their free market value from such conferences and schools in the same manner. (Antitrust economist Andy Schwarz had an excellent breakdown of college athlete compensation issues on Deadspin earlier this month. I’m firmly on the side of “Team Market” as opposed to “Team Reform”.) Even if you personally don’t agree with me (and based on the comments on previous posts, I know that many of you don’t), the reality is that the O’Bannon case is only the start of the college sports world heading in that market-based direction.
https://twitter.com/NJLovett/status/500059598980923393
The Big East won’t ever end up as part of the Power 5 conferences from an NCAA autonomy perspective. FBS football is such a dominant and driving force with respect to NCAA autonomy issues that having the Big East (or any other non-football league) as part of the “cartel” is a non-starter. The Big Ten and SEC don’t want conferences that aren’t dealing with football to have any say over what are largely football-driven decisions. That being said, the Big East isn’t really any worse off than the Group of 5 non-power FBS conferences within the NCAA structure itself. The marketplace is really where the Big East can distinguish itself – the league (despite low ratings) have an excellent TV deal with Fox that pays it more for only basketball than what any of the Group of 5 conferences (including the American Athletic Conference that has the remnants of the old Big East football league) are getting paid for TV rights for both football and basketball. The Big East also has a new non-conference challenge set up with the Big Ten next season, which indicates that it is considered to be a power conference for basketball purposes. It’s not an easy world out there for leagues that aren’t part of the Power 5, but the Big East may very well be the healthiest of any of them despite not playing any FBS football.
Enjoy the last days of a “Fancy”/”Rude” summer* and be sure to take the Ice Bucket Challenge if you haven’t done so already. Only one more week until the college football season starts!
(* You won’t be able to make it through this list of top songs from each summer for the last 20 years without either laughing uproariously at or being mortified about what we were listening to back in the day. There are some badly dated duds every year, but I have fond memories of the summers of 1992, 1997 and 2007.)
(Video from YouTube)
FRANK THE TANK'S SLANT 
Go B1G Red
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Go Hawks!!!
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Hook ’em
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We’re Irish!
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It might be nice to point out how many homes the SEC/Big10 network are “in”, not just available in. SEC will be “in” over 75M homes, which is huge.
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@Random guy – Putting these two separate reports together from today, the Big Ten Network is “in” approximately 60 million homes, while the SEC Network is in the “mid-60 million home range”:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-sherman-media-0822-20140821-column.html
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2014/08/21/verizon.aspx
So, it’s consistent with what I’ve stated – the Big Ten and SEC have similarly-sized geographic footprints and their respective network subscriptions reflect that.
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Right. But the SECN charges 40% more in footprint and 250% more outside of footprint, so it should make maybe 50% more money.
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SEC network is only .25 outside footprint. BTN is, I believe, .15 or .20
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But for who? Definitely ESPN, but how much for the conference? We’ve had a couple sources say the ESecPN is a media rights purchase (Larry Scott: a massive one) with possibly a LHN like share above a threshold (Forbes, 2013). Carriage definitely helps, but it’s not like BTN or P12N. Those can directly link carriage and rates to income.
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Who cares which conference network makes more? For tier 3 content, they don’t have overlapping audiences so it’s not like they are competing for the same viewers. So if the SEC is successful charging a higher rate then the BIG can use them to increase their own rate at the negotiating table.
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@Psuhockey – Yes, when we’re comparing similar products, it’s ultimately a matter of timing just like it is with TV rights deals. The SEC actually has a lower first tier TV rights contract than the ACC, Big 12 and Pac-12 right now, but I wouldn’t ever claim that the SEC is less valuable than those conferences. It’s simply a matter of the SEC deal being older. Invariably, ESPN went to cable providers and said, “For the SEC Network, we want what you’re paying for the BTN plus 10-20%.” In a few years when the current BTN carriage deals expire, Fox will go to cable providers and say, “For the BTN, we want what you’re paying for the SEC Network plus 10-20%.” That cycle will continue indefinitely. What matters more is how the conferences compare to each other in the long run – the Big Ten and SEC are clearly on a tier above the other Power 5.
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not 10-20%. 40%.
Also, you’re leaving out the fact that the BTN had to scratch and claw for years to get onto as many TV sets as they’re on now, and the SECN blew by that number in a week.
Also, the SECN is free to continue to up their fees over time as well.
Really takes a lot of omissions and leaps to spin it like the BTN is and will be as profitable as the SECN, unless the landscape changes significantly.
Getting a good carriage fee in NYC would help a lot of course. We’ll see how that goes.
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Really takes a lot of omissions and leaps to spin it that the SEC is and will be as profitable as the BIG when in fact it has never actually happened.
Why not wait until the actual dollars figures come out before talking smack. When the SEC finally out earns the BIG, then you can crow.
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OK, it hasn’t happened yet. What has happened is that the SECN is in more homes than the BTN and at a 30-50% higher rate per home. So it’s only a matter of time.
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It’s also kind of hilarious that you contend the fact that the BTN struggled to get carriage whereas the SECN did not is proof of your contention that the SECN is more valuable than the BTN.
Let’s just continue ignoring the fact that the BTN was the first of its kind and is the very reason the Pac-12 Network and SECN even came into existence. They proved it was a workable model and were willing to fight as long as it took to make it so. All conferences benefit from what the Big Ten had the initiative to accomplish.
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Sure, that’s part of it. But it also seems to be true that 1) ESPN is a force to be reckoned with, and 2) grassroots demand for the SECN was pretty damn high. Both of those factors would seem to set the SECN apart from the BTN and would bode well for the SECN continuing to demand higher fees going forward.
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That also assumes that every in-footprint carrier is paying the same fee, and that every out of footprint carrier is also paying the same rate.
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@wainscott
Given that all the carriers agreed to terms (minus one) isn’t it a safe assumption that the in-footprint and out-of-footprint rates are standard? Why would ESPN cave to one carrier and not another?
I think you’d expect divergent rates if negotiations were prolonged and more uniformity when they were agreed upon quickly.
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@FrankTheAg:
Honestly, I don’t know if it is a safe assumption or not. Its certainly possible the rates are uniform; its just as possible that each cable carrier has different negotiating positions, strengths, weaknesses, and market service areas, and are able to get different deals, especially when the rates are private.
Its possible that as it got closer, ESPN was more interested in getting carriage to demonstrate wider acceptance and the good publicity that comes with it than sticking to a firm carriage fee.
As for out of network, each provider will carry SECN differently on a different tier, and presumably paying differently as well.
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Right, there are some assumptions in my estimate. I’m assuming a 50/50 split as has been repeatedly reported. I’m assuming that rates will be pretty standard and at the levels that they’ve been reported but maybe there will be some minor variation, I don’t know. I’m also relying on what I’ve read about BTN fees, which were that it was $1 in footprint and 10 cents outside of network. Maybe that’s a little off.
So 50% more money is a broad guess. Maybe it’s 30%. Maybe it’s 60%. Probably somewhere in between.
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One thing is for certain. ESPN did an incredible job selling it. They got basically everyone for startup.
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MrSEC states that all the other conferences will be losers, given the rapid success in launching the SECN…this article implies that there is a silver lining for the ACC.
http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-blog/dp-teel-time-babcock-acc-channel,0,3204773.post
If cable households are signing-up for the SECN, there is a better chance of a market for an ACCN.
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Go Terps (will be at UCLA tomorrow night for the women’s soccer opener, which I believe will be Maryland’s first-ever event as a Big Ten member)! Go Nats (10 in a row after their fifth walk-off in the past six games)!
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To those of you who might be thinking, “Did he fly out there just to see a soccer game?”, I moved to Los Angeles last month and am enjoying it. Hope to take in some Southern Cal and UCLA games in a variety of sports.
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You have no excuse to miss a Rose Bowl now. It’s a semi this season, but go next season and see what it’s really all about.
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Saw you on TV…probably. Assuming you were in the bleachers.
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And you still continued to watch?
It was a brutal game from a Maryland perspective. Lost 3-0 (to the defending national champs) without a shot on goal.
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It’s not too early to discuss some basketball. Big Ten conference schedule is out now (BTN Live devoted a segment on that this evening):
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Too soon to realistically discuss predictions, but my early bird forecast puts the Terp men eighth (talented newcomers will need time to fit in)and the Terp women second (behind Purdue or Nebraska, whichever program is more experienced — Maryland needs time to adjust after losing Alyssa Thomas).
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Btw, just for comparison’s sake, here is what you and I will “miss” by not playing an ACC schedule:
Click to access 2014-15_m-baskbl_schedule.pdf
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I’m a little disappointed that you only have the Oscar Gamble ‘fro online.
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@Mike – Ha! I don’t post my picture that often, so it’s funny to see when people realize that I actually look nothing like Oscar Gamble. That Gamble avatar is one of my favorite baseball card pictures and I’m a huge White Sox fan, so I’ve kept it for years.
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Add de add add add ad
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“Now, the NCAA opens itself up on appeal to the argument that even the $5,000 trust fund cap shouldn’t apply…”
The judge did that, not the NCAA. She said you can’t set a cap…but you can…at $5k? A non decision.
“NCAA’s argument has essentially been reliant on tradition (“It has always been done this way!”) with an all-or-nothing zero sum approach.”
You believe that tradition can’t still represent an honest and current desire regarding how to administer the athletic component to their educational offering? Something old is not necessarily in need of change. In fact, longevity usually represents something important enough to have resisted it.
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Fundamentally, the problem the NCAA has with the OBannon ruling isn’t the ruling itself, but the opinion behind it. At the end of the day, they could almost certainly live with $5k per player per year being allowed (since schools can still say no).
They CAN’T, however, live with an opinion that basically says “all your legal defenses are bogus, and the only reason I’m not totally blowing you up is due to the narrow factual holdings that getting paid = exploitation, and that the public doesn’t like players getting paid a lot.” Especially since there are multiple other suits that have far broader reach than OBannon’s relatively narrow reach of NIL (name, image, likeness) rights. Kessler, for instance, would have an absolute field day with this precedent if appeals doesn’t overturn it.
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Yes. She said the cap could be no lower than $5000. She is basically leaving it for another judge to blow that up later. Its set up for an endless series of suits. And unless the legal reasoning is challenged, ultimately, there are no limits.
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“Now, the NCAA opens itself up on appeal to the argument that even the $5,000 trust fund cap shouldn’t apply…”
The judge did that, not the NCAA. She said you can’t set a cap…but you can…at $5k? A non decision.
Yes, it’s the weakest part of her decision—a number plucked out of nowhere. But the trouble for the NCAA is: if the rest of her opinion is upheld, the $5k cap is sure to rise or be eliminated entirely, at some point.
“NCAA’s argument has essentially been reliant on tradition (“It has always been done this way!”) with an all-or-nothing zero sum approach.”
You believe that tradition can’t still represent an honest and current desire regarding how to administer the athletic component to their educational offering? Something old is not necessarily in need of change. In fact, longevity usually represents something important enough to have resisted it.
You’ve misread FTT’s point. The NCAA was accused of doing something illegal. When your behavior is alleged to be unlawful, “We’ve always done it that way” is not an acceptable defense.
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Really the biggest weakness for the NCAA is that the student athletes are compensated. Its just not in cash and not taxable. If you define them as employees and not as primarily students, the defenses fall apart. Then you are getting into something similar to what they did with the assistant coaches and tried to limit salaries. They lost that case.
The new governance structure puts student-athletes on boards. It may help eliminate some of the blindness the NCAA has had towards student-athlete needs. But these suits were coming anyway. Their actions just soured the public attitude towards them.
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GEAUX Tigers!
I’m up in B1G country at a conference in Minneapolis. Downtown is very nice. Target Field is great. The Minnesota State Fair is a spectacle. I saw my first butter sculpture. Frank, I also watched a very nice show about Red Grange on the BTN.
My fraternity brother that lives here says that the SECN is on the same Comcast package as the BTN.
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forgot to add.
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Its interesting that you mention Comcast, and Andy in the previous thread mentions he has it on Comcast.
I have to believe that Comcast put the SECN on a lower tier nationwide partly because of its purchase of NBCU and the Consent Decree with the Justice Department before the government approved that takeover. Since Comcast has its own sports network (NBCSN), I suspect that Comcast actually had a weaker bargaining position than we realize because of those agreements that it could not use its power to discriminate against other sports networks, and ESPN exploited Comcast’s weakness to the fullest (as it should have) to get not only peak rates in-footprint but to get the network on a lower tier outside the footprint.
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Welcome to Minnesota, Alan! Hope you enjoy your stay in the Land of 10,000 Lakes!
BTW, the SECN is on my Dish Sports-pack with BTN, FSN, LHN, Golf Channel,… I dunno if that is something nationwide or not…
Regarding the SECN… I don’t know why so many (not just on this blog) are making this out to be some kind of competition (w/BTN, etc)… If you are a sports fan (esp. a college sports fan), we should all recognize how nice it is to be able to see such a WIDE variety of sports/sports stuff on these new (or relatively new) outlets… Wasn’t too long ago that only marquee teams/games were televised. Now even non-revenue stuff is easy to see on the tele. That is nothing but good for the universities, for the respective sports, and for the fan… Regardless of any conference affiliation…
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Had a Burger at Annie’s in Dinkytown, a beer at the Big 10 Bar, and walked through the knoll today. Tomorrow, Im heading up to Duluth and then Lake Itasca. I can’t get over how narrow the Mississippi River is up here. Also the Twins put up 20 runs on Detroit tonight. Having a great time in Minny!
Regarding your point about the BTN and the SECN, I agree.
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mnfanstc,
“Regarding the SECN… I don’t know why so many (not just on this blog) are making this out to be some kind of competition (w/BTN, etc)…”
Because the CFB media coverage (mainly ESPN) and the playoff make every other conference the enemy. What’s good for the SEC is bad for the B10 and vice versa. You are incented to root for bad things to happen to other schools and conferences.
“If you are a sports fan (esp. a college sports fan), we should all recognize how nice it is to be able to see such a WIDE variety of sports/sports stuff on these new (or relatively new) outlets…”
But most CFB fans aren’t college sports fans, they’re CFB fans that also watch march madness. And most of them have no interest in watching the lesser CFB games, either.
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Hi, Brian…
I guess I feel a little bit sorry for those who either don’t or won’t open their minds regarding some of the other sporting events.
To be fair, I have a hard time finding interest in soccer, but that’s me. And IMHO baseball is too slow to watch on TV. But, if I can, I’ll watch men’s hockey, basketball, and wrestling. I’ve found that B1G women’s volleyball is also pretty interesting and very competitive.
There are many fun things to do in life; of course, with sports/sporting events being among the nice reliefs from the daily trials of work…
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Go UGA Dawgs!
Excellent point there about all fans of college football win with the creation of SECNETWORK. Fortunately, both the B1G and SEC have been able to boost each others presence and income. Let’s face it, us SEC fans would not be enjoying this great new channel without B1G pacing the hard road before us. You guys helped make it easy.
I will gladly watch the B1G network if they have a good game on the tube, but I do have a concern about the production quality of many of the B1G network shows. I was listening to a very interesting Iowa Hawkeye podcast that had a guy by the name of Steve Deace who brought up some interesting points of difference between the 2 networks when you watch them side by side. Based on what I’ve seen and points he brought up, I do agree that the B1G Network will have to invest more money and improve their production quality if they don’t want I be lagging behind. Curious about this threads thoughts on that.
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FYI, my thoughts on one of the NCAA’s key legal arguments and how bogus it is:
http://compu-picks.com/General_Interest/20140820_OBannon_PartOne.html
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“Enjoy the Fancy/Rude summer”
Is it me or did R Kelly relocate from your old haunts and become a Haitian-American named Jason Derulo?
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CFB stadiums with beer sales this coming season:
http://collegefootball.ap.org/article/college-football-stadiums-where-beer-sold
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I am honestly surprised at how few schools sell beer at games. Maybe my experience has been clouded by the many years of playing at the Metrodome (where as an off-campus stadium, Gopher fans have been able to drown their sorrows since 1982), but to look at football tailgating culture and then clutch your pearls thinking about selling beer in the stadium seems disingenuous at best.
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Its a liability issue for schools.
If an on-campus stadium sells beer to someone under 21, that’s a problem for the school. If they sell too much beer to someone underage who gets sick, that’s also their problem.
If they do not sell beer, and someone sneaks it into a parking lot tailgate and gets sick, then its probably not the university’s problem.
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Seems the same liability would carry over to the University-owned parking lots as well. I think the problem is more one of optics than anything else.
But if there is anything that it is a deterrent to in-stadium underaged drinking, it is the $8 hit you take for every 16 ounce beer.
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Its a liability issue for schools.
It is a concern but not an overriding one. My experience is the other problems with drinking (poor behavior, fighting, DWI post game) are what concerns schools the most. Law enforcement doesn’t mind a stadium full of people who don’t have access (unless snuck in) to alcohol and have 3 to 4 hours to sober up during a game. Especially, in the smaller college towns where a majority of fans are not staying the night.
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One factor I think many people forget – thousands of fans at every game don’t tailgate at all. There are plenty of people who don’t drink at all on a game day, especially in the more conservative parts of the country. Not every fan is looking for a way to have more beer, and some of the old rich alumni really push back at being surrounded by drunks.
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There are plenty of people who don’t drink at all on a game day, especially in the more conservative parts of the country
I don’t think this is a red/blue state problem. The conservative south is known for tailgating just as much as Wisconsin is.
Not every fan is looking for a way to have more beer, and some of the old rich alumni really push back at being surrounded by drunks.
In my experience, families with young children object the most being around drunks.
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Mike,
“I don’t think this is a red/blue state problem. The conservative south is known for tailgating just as much as Wisconsin is.”
I was thinking more rural versus urban, and certain flavors of religion look down on drinking more than others making a regional difference.
“In my experience, families with young children object the most being around drunks.”
But the rich people (usually older) are who the ADs listen to because they donate so much.
Personally, I hate being surrounded by drunks at a game. It’s uncomfortable enough without people stumbling into you, leaning on you and/or spilling beer on you. I can do without the drunken yelling, too. It’s one reason I like OSU’s policy of enforcing open container laws during tailgating. If you can’t have fun without drinking to excess, stay home or go to a bar.
ADs have to evaluate the tradeoff. Plenty of people will still get blitzed before the game, but now they can keep feeding that buzz during the game. On the other hand, many will drink less before the game knowing they can get a few during it. I believe the stats so far show fewer legal problems during games. The limited number you can get during the game should also mean that DUIs aren’t much more common if at all, either.
I don’t really care if they sell beer, with one caveat. Anyone who spills their beer on someone (without being bumped) should be kicked out. Nobody wants to go home smelling like stale beer because you’re a drunk.
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I was thinking more rural versus urban, and certain flavors of religion look down on drinking more than others making a regional difference.
I’m curious which side (rural or urban) you feel drink more? I agree with you about the religion thing.
On the other hand, many will drink less before the game knowing they can get a few during it. I believe the stats so far show fewer legal problems during games.
I haven’t seen any numbers, but in my experience alcohol availability during a game has a little effect on how much someone will drink before. I’ve heard this as a justification for in stadium sales but I would very surprised if it is indeed true. Enough schools have dropped alcohol sales in the past citing problems that I’d be surprised if the fewer legal problems trend holds.
The limited number you can get during the game should also mean that DUIs aren’t much more common if at all, either.
As I understand it, if someone is already legally drunk, it only takes two 24 ounce beers (or 4 12oz) over a four hour period for them to stay there. Even with limited availability, it doesn’t take that many beers over a four hour game to get/stay legally drunk.
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It looks more like an added source of $$$ for Go5 schools with limited TV revenue. Very few P5 schools, but a good distribution of north/south, urban/rural: 5 in OH, 5 in TX, 3 in LA, 2 in AL. Most of these schools will follow the pros (no sales in 4th Quarter), or sell beer at the concessions directly behind the student sections.
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Go Bucks
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ESPN has a couple of articles about MI’s demise and the impact of that on the B10.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11386760/big-ten-needs-michigan-wolverines-now-more-ever
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11389472/michigan-wolverines-fell-now-trying-get-up
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http://www.freep.com/article/20140821/SPORTS06/308210124/michigan-football-doug-nussmeier-gardner
Maybe here’s one reason for their recent struggles.
“Before coach Nuss got here, I never identified a Mike (linebacker). Now I’m identifying the Mikes and know where the pressure is coming from. So if I am going to have to be hot, I’ll know how to protect myself or throw hot to a receiver and communicate that with them. It’s been amazing for me.”
Isn’t identifying the Mike basically QB 101? And he wasn’t doing that before?
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http://www.omaha.com/huskers/shatel-big-ten-s-problem-is-attitude-not-injury/article_0f775f4d-3d45-55af-9dea-c736edd53ca1.html
A NE writer blames the attitude of B10 people. Maybe midwestern humility is hurting our national perception.
So we read that the Buckeyes are now out of the running for the Big Ten and the playoffs.
Must be contagious. We also read that Michigan State’s chances are shot now, too, because the Spartans play damaged-goods Ohio State.
What’s that? The College Football Playoff has been settled. The champions of the Big 12, Pac-12, SEC and ACC will be invited. The entire Big Ten is going to be shut out of the playoff. Yes, that includes you, Nebraska, and you, Iowa.
…
Typically, I would expect such theories to be espoused from SEC country. The folks down south may be on top, but they have a strange obsession with the Big Ten. They will take shots at the great white north whenever possible. Why bother?
But not this time. This time, the doom and gloom came from several Big Ten outlets, including the Chicago Tribune and Big Ten Network.
There’s a saying: If you don’t take yourself seriously, nobody else will.
It’s not the job of Big Ten sportswriters and media to pump up the conference. But to write off the entire league in August tells me this conference has an image problem, and most of the locals are buying in.
…
But people like to pile on the Big Ten. And the Big Ten doesn’t push back.
In the SEC, you would hear about there being six or seven contenders for the playoff. That someone would get left out, the injustice of it all.
But Wednesday, the Chicago Tribune wrote, “Sorry … no team from the West will get there.”
…
But here’s the thing. Nebraska goes up to East Lansing on Oct. 4. NU might lose to Fresno State or Miami. And MSU might not get a lot out of beating the Huskers.
But what if Michigan State beat, say, Georgia on Oct. 4? You’d hear all about the great victory over the vaunted SEC.
Nebraska beat Georgia last January in the Gator Bowl.
The Big Ten doesn’t get credit for that. Because it doesn’t do it nearly enough. But also, because the Big Ten doesn’t give itself credit. Dare to dream.
Mostly, I get tired of the SEC overselling itself and the Big Ten underselling.
The SEC is very good, at pigskin and marketing. Nobody kept score on which was the best conference before 2006. But SEC coaches and their media markets have beaten us over the head with it for eight years. Mostly, they’ve taken credit for what Alabama, Florida, LSU and Auburn have done.
And now they have the ESPN machine on their side. The SEC Network looks good, but it’s no different from any other conference network out there. The SEC didn’t reinvent television.
What the SEC really leads the nation in is pride. Regional pride.
In the Pac-12, in California, they aren’t talking about the playoff. They might be in Texas or Oklahoma, but not Kansas or Iowa or North Carolina. In the Big Ten, you’re as likely to hear people talk about the campus or library as they are the football team.
The SEC is radio talk show host Paul Finebaum writing a book titled, “My Conference Can Beat Your Conference: Why the SEC Still Rules College Football.” There’s a passage in that book that says it all.
“People outside the SEC look down on the South’s obsession with college football. I look up to it. The SEC is college football’s industrial giant. It makes us Southerners proud again. It helps define us. It makes us a family. College football is our great equalizer. You’ve got Harvard, Wall Street and Independence Hall. We’ve got the Iron Bowl, Main Street and Kyle Field.”
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Humility,huh? That’s funny, considering the main complaint about Big Ten fans from non-Big Ten fans is how arrogant they are.
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The SEC is obsessed with the Big Ten? So says the writer who mentions the SEC 14 times in his column.
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ACC fans are at least as self-depicating as Big Ten fans. There’s very much a “Thank God for Florida State and Clemson because of the rest of us suck” attitude among many fans, at least in North Carolina.
I agree that the Big Ten is undersold. Michigan State was an outstanding team last year and should be this year as well. Ohio State is still loaded with talent even without Braxton Miller. Wisconsin is very good, too, and would compete well in any league. But everyone focuses on the losses to the SEC. Interestingly enough, the Pac-12, the other league touted as above the rest, has no tie-ins in bowl games with the SEC, so both avoid losses to each other.
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Season Matchup Result Spread
2000 No. 3 Alabama at UCLA UCLA, 35-24 Alabama by 7
2001 No. 17 UCLA at No. 25 Alabama UCLA, 20-17 Alabama by 2
2002 Auburn at No. 19 USC USC, 24-17 USC by 7
2002 Miss. State at No. 15 Oregon Oregon, 36-13 Oregon by 13
2003 No. 13 LSU at Arizona LSU, 59-13 LSU by 11
2003 No. 8 USC at No. 6 Auburn USC, 23-0 Auburn by 3
2003 Oregon at Mississippi State Oregon, 42-34 Oregon by 3
2004 Oregon State at No. 4 LSU LSU, 22-21, OT LSU by 18
2005 No. 5 LSU at No. 15 ASU LSU, 35-31 ASU by 1
2005 Arkansas at No. 1 USC USC 70-17 USC by 30
2006 Arizona at No. 8 LSU LSU, 45-3 LSU by 15
2006 No. 9 Cal at No. 23 Tennessee Tennessee, 35-18 Cal by 2
2006 No. 6 USC at Arkansas USC, 50-14 USC by 7
2006 Wash. State at No. 4 Auburn Auburn, 40-14 Auburn by 14
2007 No. 15 Tennessee at No. 12 Cal Cal, 45-31 Cal by 6
2008 No. 18 Tennessee at UCLA UCLA, 27-24 (OT) Tennessee by 7.5
2008 No. 3 Georgia at Arizona State Georgia, 27-20 Georgia by 7
2009 No. 11 LSU at Washington LSU, 31-23 LSU by 17.5
2009 UCLA at Tennessee UCLA, 19-15 Tennessee by 8
2009 Arizona State at No. 21 Georgia Georgia, 20-17 Georgia by 7
2010 No. 7 Oregon at Tennessee Oregon, 48-13 Oregon by 10.5
2010 No. 2 Oregon vs. No. 1 Auburn Auburn, 22-19 Auburn by 3
2011 No. 3 Oregon vs. No. 4 LSU LSU, 40-27 Oregon by 2.5
2012 ASU at No. 21 Missouri Missouri, 24-20 ASU by 7
2012 Washington at No. 3 LSU LSU, 41-3 LSU by 24
2013 Washington State at Auburn Auburn, 31-24 Auburn by 14
2013 Tennessee at No. 2 Oregon Oregon, 59-14 Oregon by 28
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/08/21/report-missouri-violated-title-ix-laws-not-investigating-rape-allegation
The University of Missouri violated Title IX laws by not conducting an investigation after a student accused a football player of raping her, according to a report from ESPN’s Outside the Lines.
The student reportedly told an academic adviser about the rape, which allegedly occurred in 2008, but assistant football coaches told the parents of the football player, Derrick Washington, that criminal charges were unlikely.
University officials confirmed to Outside the Lines that a Title IX investigation was not conducted.
Washington was also involved in three other incidents while at Missouri.
In 2010, a woman’s soccer player who was arrested for fighting with Washington’s girlfriend at a bar alleged that Washington punched her in the face. The woman’s soccer player spoke to her coach, who said her scholarship was at risk because of her arrest, according to a police report. From ESPN’s investigation:
The report stated, “Her coach made her feel as though she would not have any problems with her scholarship if she declined to prosecute Derrick Washington for assaulting her,” and that, “If Mr. Washington was arrested, the incident would make the news and the situation with her scholarship might change.”
The soccer player said she lost her scholarship but had it reinstated with the help from an attorney.
In 2011, Washington was convicted on a deviate sexual assault charge and sentenced to five years in prison after he sexually assaulted a woman who was asleep in her bed, an incident that occurred weeks after the alleged bar assault of the women’s soccer player. As part of a first-time offenders program, Washington served four months and registered as a sex offender.
In 2012, Washington received a 90-day jail sentence as part of a guilty plea to misdemeanor third-degree domestic assault after he beat up his girlfriend, an incident that occurred in 2010 just 13 days after he was charged for the bedroom incident. He served the 90 days simultaneously with his other sentence.
During his three years at Missouri, Washington rushed for more than 2,000 yards and 28 touchdowns. Washington was selected as a team captain and sent to represent the Tigers at Big 12 media days in 2010.
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Incredible and shameful levels of spin and omission in the OTL story. Much longer and more accurate story in the St. Louis Post Dispatch:
http://m.stltoday.com/sports/college/mizzou/eye-on-the-tigers/washington-disputes-allegations-uncovered-by-espn/article_2ff880b9-55e0-50cd-9bc8-67736265e301.html?mobile_touch=true
Cliffs Notes:
The alleged victim was a stripper, they were having consensual sexual activities. In her version she then told him to stop and he didn’t stop right away until she pushed him. In his version he stopped pretty much immediately. Either way she goes to the police. They investigate thoroughly and decide not to prosecute the Mizzou player, who at the time had no prior arrests or allegations against him. Part of the reason they decided to drop charges is because the alleged victim admitted that her ex-boyfriend had been pushing her to try to blackmail the football coaches about this.
So where Mizzou is admitting fault is that like a lot of schools (USC, Arizona State, Tulsa, and many more) back in 2008 they hadn’t yet set up a system for automatically doing a separate Title IX internal investigation in addition to the investigation performed by law enforcement. Mizzou implemented these problems years ago but 6 years ago this had not been done yet.
As far as the soccer player, OTL fails to mention that this allegation has been investigated and found to be unsubstantiated. What actually seems to have happened is that the soccer player was involved in a bar room brawl with several other people, and violently attacked Derrick Washington’s then girlfriend. Accounts vary on if Washington struck the soccer player or not, but in any case the point in contention is the soccer player’s conversation with her coach. The coach was not somehow trying to protect the football player, why would he? He was trying to protect his own player, basically by telling her “think hard before you try to escalate this legal issue with getting hit by the football player, because you were punching people too, and if you get charged with assault and battery then by rule I’d have to revoke your scholarship. But if you just let it go and don’t get charged (which is what she ended up doing) then you can stay on the team”. Think what you want of that advice but it’s night and day different from what OTL tried to imply.
I’m sure the usual people will say I’m being a homer by correcting OTL’s spin. Just read the St. Louis Post Dispatch’s story if you care. If you don’t then just let it be. Or troll me if that’s how you get your kicks. The St. Louis Post Dispatch has a long history of negative stories about Mizzou so don’t think that they set out to whitewash this either. That’s just where the facts led them.
This is just one of many OTL stories that miss the mark badly.
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*”Mizzou implemented these problems years ago but” should read “Mizzou started doing these title IX investigations years ago but”
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http://fansided.com/2014/08/22/college-football-5-teams-living-reputation/#!bIhZfx
5 ranked teams living on their reputation. Warning, it’s a slideshow.
Here are the 5:
1. UT
2. ND
3. NE
4. USC
5. UGA
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Washington was selected as a team captain and sent to represent the Tigers at Big 12 media days in 2010.
In 2010, a woman’s soccer player who was arrested for fighting with Washington’s girlfriend at a bar alleged that Washington punched her in the face.
In 2011, Washington was convicted on a deviate sexual assault charge and sentenced to five years in prison after he sexually assaulted a woman who was asleep in her bed, an incident that occurred weeks after the alleged bar assault of the women’s soccer player.
In 2012, Washington received a 90-day jail sentence as part of a guilty plea to misdemeanor third-degree domestic assault after he beat up his girlfriend, an incident that occurred in 2010 just 13 days after he was charged for the bedroom incident.
SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC!
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Yeah… a player ends up sexually assaulting someone, he’s kicked off the team, and goes to jail.
I mean it sucks but it can happen to literally any team at any time. You get some of these inner city kids from rough backgrounds and sometimes they commit serious crimes.
So what else can you do beyond kick them out of the program when it happens? Build a time machine and unrecruit them?
I mean, it’s one thing to criticize a program for covering up crimes or keeping players after they’ve been charged with serious crimes.
But if you have a kid on your team who commits a crime and then you boot him, that’s pretty much all that can be done. What’s to criticize?
Yeah, it’s happened to Mizzou 3 times in six years: Derrick Washington, Michael Dixon, and Dorial Green-Beckham. All three were accused of violence against women. All three were booted.
Now DGB’s gonna go play for Oklahoma. If you’re going to point fingers that’s where you should be pointing. They’re appealing to get a known woman abuser eligible this year.
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It’s moot now.
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/22/ncaa-denies-dorial-green-beckhams-appeal/related/
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nice
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/08/21/army-black-knights-jeff-monken
Turning around Army football comes with a cost. Is it worth it?
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http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/uclanow/la-sp-ucla-neuheisel-warns-against-playoff-20140821-story.html
Rick Neuheisel warns that the P12 may be hurt by the playoff, especially this year. His concerns:
1. P12 is the only league playing 9 games + a CCG, so they are more likely to have a 2-loss champion.
2. The P12 is loaded with veteran QBs in 2014, making upsets more likely. Again, meaning the champ is likely to have more losses.
3. Especially in year 1, the committee will feel pressure to not skip over an undefeated team or a 1-loss champ to take a multi-loss champ.
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add
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http://bloguin.com/thestudentsection/2014/predicting-where-gameday-will-go-in-2014.html
Predicting where GameDay will be each week this season. I think he overestimates how Machiavellian ESPN is in choosing games, though. He frequently has ESPN skipping the best game because ESPN doesn’t want to help Fox, NBC or the P12, but they’ll willing help CBS (over ABC) apparently. I know ESPN is in bed with the SEC, but I’d need to see evidence of them doing this in the past to believe they’d skip the top game that often.
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http://bloguin.com/thestudentsection/uncategorized/b1g-first-round-qb-drought-does-it-even-matter.html
Does the B10’s drought of 1st-round QBs matter (last one was Kerry Collins in 1994)? ESPN also talked about it today.
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/105926/elite-qbs-could-be-missing-piece-for-b1g
Some say yes, as the lack of elite QB play is what has held the B10 back in its recent decline and I agree that has been part of it. A lot of it was the run-first offenses the conservative coaches ran, though.
Others say no, because it’s a dumb way to measure college QB play. This also has a lot of validity as Tom Brady and Drew Brees both came after Collins and they’ve turned out all right. There was also a Heisman winner in Troy Smith. B10 QBs have won 5 of the Super Bowls since 1995, more than any other conference. Last season, only the ACC had more NFL starters than the B10.
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It does not matter in reality, but it may matter in perception of the conference overall.
What colleges ask of QB’s and what pro scouts/GM’s look for in QB prospects are not necessarily the same.
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The spread offense doesn’t help matters. It emphasizes running over passing, while the rules favor passing over running.
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It depends on the flavor of the spread. The Air Raid style emphasizes passing. The read option style emphasizes running. In general, college tends towards running in part because it’s easier to find athletes that can run the ball than find excellent decision makers for throwing the ball.
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Thanks for the info.
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QB talent, or any position for that matter, has often been talked about for the decline in the BIG football of late but that is a symptom not the cause. The BIG has been down due to coaching the last decade. Tressel was an above average football coach but easily dominated the conference 2000’s. Look at the coaching talent in the 90’s: Saban, Carr, Alverez, Tiller, Barnett and under 70’s Paterno. By the 2000’s these guys were old and recruiting drastically changed in the internet age. Their programs became stale and in the case of Purdue, died. Yet none of them were fired, except Paterno about a decade too late. Saban and Barnett left. Just to show you how old and stale the coaching got in the BIG in the 2000s, they actually had some stupid gentleman’s agreement not to poach each other verbals.
Meyers and now Franklin have brought SEC-like recruiting to the BIG. Dantonio is like Alverez in his ability to coach up 3 star recruits into stars. Hoke and Pelini need to be fired but hopefully those schools bring in the right hires to help turn the conference around. College football is all bout coaching and the SEC had them for the 2000’s and BIG needs to catch up.
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http://www.dishsportsvalue.com/
Dish is blacking out some FS1 sports events.
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@Brian – This is actually Fox blacking out specific games (all Big 12 and Pac-12 games so far) to provide leverage in a carriage dispute. The BTN threatened to black out Nebraska games if Nebraska carriers didn’t start paying the in-market rate (as opposed to the lower out-of-market rate when Nebraska was part of the Big 12), but it never got to that point since everyone signed up.
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Okay. I wrote it that way because that’s how Matt Sarz said it in a tweet.
Matt Sarzyniak @mattsarz
Had not heard about this. RT @PortlandChris1 http://www.dishsportsvalue.com/ Dish is blacking out college football games on FS1
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He’s got a series of relevant tweets – https://twitter.com/mattsarz
Odd side item is that FOX College Sports’ live games became available on Dish systems about 6-8 weeks ago.
…
As I was conversing w/someone else, either FOX is making the rounds to get more $ for FS1 & Dish called bluff or FOX told them “no games”
…
This has to be where it gets awkward w/Pac-12. Has business deal for signage, sponsorship w/Dish as part of P12 Nets but other games from your conference are now unavailable because of a dispute w/entity that pays ~47% of your primary rights fees.
…
Flipside for P12 is that you still have your games on ABC/ESPN & can push P12 Net on fans, I guess.
…
Caught one exchange from Dish’s Twitter service team from about a day ago. Sounds like they were caught off guard about this.
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How does this dispute arise? Didn’t Dish (and other carriers) sign a carriage agreement for FS1 just a year ago? So FS1 has the ability to go back a year later and demand higher fees and withhold games if that demand isn’t met? Does this mean other carriers have agreed to raise their fees for FS1?
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The contract Dish has for Speed must be specific enough that Fox is able to withhold the football content. I expect Dish refused to agree to a fee increase when the channel changed to FS1.
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“Didn’t Dish (and other carriers) sign a carriage agreement for FS1 just a year ago?”
No. Fox asked for a bump, but nobody expected them to get one until the existing contract (for the channel previously called Speed) at least got closer to expiration.
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Looks like a deal has been reached:
http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/dish-and-fox-sports-1-have-struck-a-deal-to-show-college-football.html
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A profile of Phil Steele.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24641607/does-a-big-bowl-win-create-momentum-or-just-inflated-expectations
A surprising big bowl win creates expectations more than momentum.
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Georgia Tech just got 2 more years of probation.
They implemented new software that monitored their calls to recruits. Coaches didn’t think, with the software, they needed to log calls that didn’t get answered by the recruit. However, NCAA rules require they do or additional calls are not allowed. This was self-reported by Georgia Tech.
Didn’t see this morning’s AJC article up yet on the site, so I can’t link it. But if there is ever an argument for scrapping the NCAA rule book and enforcement mechanism, Georgia Tech is the poster child for it. Their last probation and vacating on an ACC title was because 1 player took $312 of clothing from an agent and the AD told the coach the NCAA was investigating it when the NCAA didn’t want him to.
Meanwhile, the NCAA is apologizing to Miami and ignoring North Carolina and Auburn.
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bullet,
“Georgia Tech just got 2 more years of probation.”
Well, they self-imposed it in agreement with the NCAA.
“They implemented new software that monitored their calls to recruits. Coaches didn’t think, with the software, they needed to log calls that didn’t get answered by the recruit. However, NCAA rules require they do or additional calls are not allowed. This was self-reported by Georgia Tech.”
You left out three critical parts of this.
1. The GT compliance director told the coaches they didn’t need to log the calls. You can’t have a compliance guy not knowing the rules and telling coaches the wrong thing.
2. The report also gave further detail on Spencer’s misdoings. Between April 7, 2011 and January 8, 2012, he sent 217 impermissible texts to 18 prospects. He told NCAA enforcement staff that there was no excuse for the texts, that he knew it was a violation but did it anyway, in one case because of a relationshp with a prospect that was deemed to have “a significant humanitarian dimension.” Most damaging, Spencer told investigators he would have stopped had he known that the school was monitoring his text usage.
3. The NCAA came down more harshly on three women’s basketball assistant coaches on the staff during the investigated time period — Octavia Blue, Janie Mitchell and Sam Purcell. While they also unknowingly made impermissible calls, once they became aware of the violations, they “made a conscious decision to not report the violations to the compliance staff or to inform (coach MaChelle) Joseph,” the report read. All three offered explanations, “but each generally admitted they knew not reporting the violations was wrong,” according to the report.
The NCAA called it failure to monitor, which sounds about right.
“Didn’t see this morning’s AJC article up yet on the site, so I can’t link it.”
http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/ncaa-cites-georgia-tech-for-failure-to-monitor/ng7dn/
The institute also subjected itself to an additional two years of probation (on top of its four-year probation penalty assessed in 2011) because of a former assistant football coach’s willful disregard of text-messaging rules and also because of 461 impermissible calls and 256 impermissible text messages to prospects made by coaches in football and men’s and women’s basketball coaches in 2011 and 2012. There will be no further penalties, such as vacated wins or scholarship reductions.
Since they were already on probation and multiple coaches admitted to knowingly breaking the rules, I think GT was lucky to get away with just more probation.
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The point is that not logging incomplete calls is an NCAA violation. That is simply absurd.
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Not if there is a limit on the number of permissible contacts it isn’t (and if you don’t limit them, the kids will never have time to eat, sleep or study because coaches will bother them 24/7). Even a call that doesn’t end in a conversation has recruiting value (it tells the kid you were “thinking about him”). Besides, as you saw most of the problems were willful violations. That’s why I don’t see GT as a great example. They broke the rules knowingly.
There are good reasons why the NCAA rulebook became so thick.
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http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11397368/kevin-love-traded-minnesota-timberwolves-cleveland-cavaliers
The Kevin Love trade is official.
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2014/08/22/mlb-on-the-cusp-to-relaxing-blackouts-for-streaming-baseball-games-online-or-mobile-devices/
MLB is close to ending the blackout on streaming local games.
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This would be a boon to folks caught in the crossfire in Iowa (Chisox, Cubs, Royals, Cards) or Las Vegas (claimed as territory by five different MLB teams).
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@vp19 – It’s even worse than that in Iowa since the Twins and Brewers also that state as a “home” market, too. Of course, it looks like MLB still wants you to have an authenticated cable account with the applicable regional sports network in order to access games online, so it may not be as helpful as it would seem on paper. The big issue with a state like Iowa is that the markets there generally only carry one of either Comcast SportsNet Chicago (Cubs and White Sox) or Fox Sports Midwest (Cardinals), yet all of the other teams that claim Iowa as a “home” market still get blacked out. If MLB Extra Innings just moves to a cable authentication model (which you honestly shouldn’t have to pay for if you have a cable subscription, anyway), then it still won’t help those fans.
Now, I understand why this is occurring – MLB teams are getting rich off of regional sports network revenue much more than national TV revenue, so they want their RSNs to be in as wide of an area as possible. This means that the teams don’t want fans to be able to see their games on an a la carte MLB Extra Innings package when those teams could be making much more off of basic cable RSN subscriber fees. I sympathize with the teams with respect to their direct home markets, but the situation in a supposedly neutral territory like Iowa where so many far flung teams are claiming that territory is ridiculous. There has to be some type of reasonableness test or at least something similar to the way that the NFL defines primary (the DMA that the team is actually located in) and secondary markets (any portion of a DMA is within 75 miles of the team’s stadium).
So, a possible compromise would be that a team can protect its primary and secondary markets with MLB Extra Innings blackouts, but it can’t stake claims beyond that. This would ensure that, say, the Cubs and White Sox aren’t putting their CSN Chicago carriage at risk in the Chicago DMA and adjacent markets (i.e. Rockford, South Bend) while giving the people in far flung locations (such as Iowa) full access to MLB Extra Innings without unreasonable blackouts. You can add this to the laundry list of action items that I’d take if I were the Commissioner of Baseball. Next up: Playoff changes!
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MLB blackout map:
Iowa does indeed get the shaft.
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Map showing which Major League Baseball teams have local blackout rights in which areas of the United States. Areas where only one team (or two teams with identical blackout areas) has blackout rights are solid colors as indicated on map. Areas where multiple teams have blackout rights are symbolized as stripped areas with each team having blackout rights being represented by appropriately colored stripes. Not pictured: Hawaii: Oakland Athletics, Seattle Mariners, San Francisco Giants, San Diego Padres, Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, and Los Angeles Dodgers. Alaska: Seattle Mariners Puerto Rico: unknown US Virgin Islands and Guam: All teams
(emphasis mine. Text from Greg’s link)
Sucks to be in Hawaii, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.
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Las Vegas also has 6 teams blacked out, same as the states of IA and HI. OK, AR, and Buffalo have 4 teams blacked out. From a quality standpoint, CT is the only state that has both the Yankees and Red Sox blacked out.
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http://ohiostate.247sports.com/Article/New-Big-Ten-Officiating-Rules-30515555
A Q&A with Bill Carollo, the coordinator of B10 officials.
Q. What areas are you looking for overall improvement in 2014?
Carollo: “I am looking at three areas. No. 1, it was on defensive pass interference. That’s my first area. No. 2 was on line play: chop blocks, offensive holding, even defensive holding. No. 3 was hurry-up offense. We’re not very good at that. We don’t see it every single week. It puts pressure on the defense, but it puts pressure on the officials. We’re not quite ready. Offenses just keep coming the whole game. We’ve got 200 plays, and that’s a fast-paced game.”
Look for B10 officials to finally start calling holding.
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I thought the SEC and ACC’s decisions not to include BYU as a team that counts toward their leagues’ required minimum of one power conference opponent per year were weird. Notre Dame counts as one for both the SEC and ACC, even though they still are not a member of a football league. BYU is independent. What gives?
I know for me, I would be pretty disappointed if my favorite team only played on power conference opponent in non-conference play. That said, I would be happier with three cupcakes and a game against BYU than three cupcakes and a game against a Wake Forest, Washington State, Indiana, etc. BYU is just as challenging as the average P5 opponent.
I just don’t get it. It’s not as though everyone is going to be scheduling Michigan, USC, etc., so this isn’t going to be aiding strength of schedule as much as it might appear to be doing.
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The sarc-y side of me is saying “now you know why Romney lost, especially FL and VA (plus he barely (50.8%) won NC running 8 pts behind the winning R governor candidate), when I was thinking he’d squeeze out a 280-300 EV victory”. Mormons still thought of as cultists by Southern Baptists?
Its a shame that the PAC has this principled stand against them and that the B-12 found BYU officials a pain to deal with. The PAC in particular and the B-12 (except for WV) should lobby citing travel issues (e.g. not a lot of other P5 schools within 1,000 miles); BYU is in some ways a mirror image of ND – an iconic religous university with a larger-than-regional following, so I do see your point. There may be the thought that opening the door to BYU may be opening the door to another P-conference to form, with its multiple (SDSU?, Fresno, UNLV or UN-R) more mouths to feed.
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Michael in Raleigh,
“I thought the SEC and ACC’s decisions not to include BYU as a team that counts toward their leagues’ required minimum of one power conference opponent per year were weird. Notre Dame counts as one for both the SEC and ACC, even though they still are not a member of a football league. BYU is independent. What gives?”
ND is a major brand, BYU isn’t. ND is a P5 school, BYU is a MWC school. Declaring independence doesn’t magically elevate BYU’s status.
“I know for me, I would be pretty disappointed if my favorite team only played on power conference opponent in non-conference play.”
That really depends on the schedule. FSU has a locked P5 rival OOC so of course they tend to play more than 1 P5 team OOC. Basically they have a 9 game locked schedule (8 ACC + UF) and 3 OOC games. That’s where the B12 and P12 are now and the B10 soon will be. Beyond UF, how often does FSU play 2 P5 teams OOC? Never. I think 10 of 12 is a realistic goal for most P5 teams. But if you already have 9 conference games, that means only 1 P5 team OOC.
“That said, I would be happier with three cupcakes and a game against BYU than three cupcakes and a game against a Wake Forest, Washington State, Indiana, etc. BYU is just as challenging as the average P5 opponent.”
Yes, BYU can beat many P5 teams now. But who says they’ll stay that good? There are worse P5 teams, but at least they are P5 teams so they are on a level financial playing field. Besides, the weaker P5 teams need to be able to schedule other weak P5 teams. That’s why the rule is so broad.
“I just don’t get it. It’s not as though everyone is going to be scheduling Michigan, USC, etc., so this isn’t going to be aiding strength of schedule as much as it might appear to be doing.”
Appearance is everything. The ACC and SEC were being mocked by fans of other conferences for all their non-P5 cupcakes, and there is a fear that feeling will carry over to the playoff committee, so they acted.
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And in the case of the SEC, it was clearly substantially more cosmetic than anything else, since if you look at this season’s schedule, its something like four schools that don’t play a P5 school OOC … the Mississippi’s, TX A&M, and Vandy. Vandy is because the effort to establish an ongoing series with Wake Forest got knocked aside by the SEC scheduling of Vandy with the Vols, and AFAIU, TX A&M is the normal consequences of a conference realignment and they will shortly be back to playing P5 schools OOC.
So the long term impact of the rule is basically that the Mississippi’s don’t get to play an all-cupcake OOC schedule any more.
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Exactly. Much the same is true for the ACC. They were grand statements signifying almost nothing.
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I know reporters are claiming every non-conference series involving 2 ‘Power 5’ schools is about the playoff, but I don’t think the playoff has caused any changes in scheduling practices.
It seems clear the SEC mandate was about the SEC Network, as the conference now cares about the quality of Mississippi State’s non-conference schedule. The ACC followed because it didn’t want to be the only one without such a guideline and it hopes to have its own network soon.
Of course, it’s not just about TV rights; schools are more amenable to scheduling home-and-home match-ups because of the drop in attendance for ‘buy’ games and because the cost of those ‘buy’ games has gone up.
In addition, profitable neutral-site games have increased steadily. Atlanta has gone to 2 a year and Houston recently added one. Nashville is starting one and there are ‘one-off’ match-ups coming up in Green Bay & at an auto-racing track in Tennessee.
Again, I see no evidence the playoffs have changed anything.
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I think we’ve reached the tipping point on home games, of which playoff scheduling is a small, yet valid, part. The reasons now pushing for stronger OOC games includes playoff SOS, conference network programming strength, popular sentiment, but lastly, and probably the most important, is the struggles that schools are seeing with ticket sales. Strengthening OOC games not only increases ticket demand, but should somewhat suppress supply as more teams replace one-off buy games with HaH deals.
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Just to expand on Greg’s answer, the playoff has encouraged the scheduling of P5 schools for SOS purposes. Remember, SOS is determined by opponents and the opponents’ own SOS. So playing Indiana yields a benefit for SOS vs a non P5 school because even if Indiana is bad, its own SOS will reflect a tougher conference schedule than it would for Wyoming or Boise State or BYU.
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” Beyond UF, how often does FSU play 2 P5 teams OOC? Never.”
It’s not often at all, but this year FSU plays Notre Dame and Oklahoma State. 11 P5 teams, plus The Citadel.
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“ND is a major brand, BYU isn’t. ND is a P5 school, BYU is a MWC school. Declaring independence doesn’t magically elevate BYU’s status.”
BYU was and is comparable to many P5 programs; but they were in the Mountain West Conference. Declaring independence wasn’t to magically elevate the status – it was to distance itself from the inaccurate and demeaning MWC label.
Independence matches BYU’s past and current status much better than the former affiliation.
From a competition standpoint, BYU would fit right in with most Autonomy 5 conferences. From a facilities and resources standpoint, same. From an attendance and fan base perspective, BYU would be in the top-half of the PAC 12, Big 12, and ACC.
For what it’s worth, Oregon State and Washington State would fit right in with the MWC. The PAC 12 affiliation is the key difference. See also Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Iowa St., etc.
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bradleysmith1212,
“BYU was and is comparable to many P5 programs;”
But not to ND which was the comparison being made.
“but they were in the Mountain West Conference. Declaring independence wasn’t to magically elevate the status – it was to distance itself from the inaccurate and demeaning MWC label.”
How is it inaccurate to say a program that just left the MWC is a MWC level program? Did BYU have some recent period of utter domination of the MWC that I missed? Both Utah and TCU have had losing records since joining P5 conferences, and they were the best MWC teams.
Demeaning is in the eye of the beholder. Idaho would love to be called a MWC level team.
“Independence matches BYU’s past and current status much better than the former affiliation.”
Army and Navy are also independent, but almost nobody claims they deserve P5 status. Each independent is treated differently. ND has earned a status that BYU hasn’t.
“From a competition standpoint, BYU would fit right in with most Autonomy 5 conferences. From a facilities and resources standpoint, same. From an attendance and fan base perspective, BYU would be in the top-half of the PAC 12, Big 12, and ACC.”
But ND gets special treatment because they fit in with the other kings. The P5 don’t get paid what they do for the middle of the pack programs, they get it for the top ones.
“For what it’s worth, Oregon State and Washington State would fit right in with the MWC. The PAC 12 affiliation is the key difference. See also Wake Forest, Vanderbilt, Indiana, Iowa St., etc.”
Sure affiliation helps. Nobody said otherwise. But that doesn’t change what BYU is, and what they are isn’t what ND is (which is I what I said to begin with). Not being ND in FB isn’t a put down.
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FYI. The Confidential is running three different fantasy football games/contests. One is a simple, pick the 4 playoff teams contest.
The other two are ACC-centeric. The second is an actual fantasy football, individual player selection contest. The third is a survivor pool.
If you think you know football, please feel free to enter one or more of the contests. The fantasy football contest is organized so that if you miss a week, all is good. We are competitive folks, but reasonable.
See here for details: http://atlanticcoastconfidential.com/2014/08/25/the-three-confidential-fantasy-football-games-contests/
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NFL and DirecTV on the verge of an extension of NFL Sunday Ticket through 2021:
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2014/08/25/Media/DirecTV.aspx
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24678782/things-to-watch-the-playoff-will-change-everything-except-elites-dominance
25 things to watch this season.
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http://247sports.com/Article/The-biggest-Big-Ten-football-games-of-the-2014-college-season-30521763
The biggest game each week involving a B10 team, with a paragraph about each game.
Aug. 30 – Wisconsin vs. LSU (at Reliant Stadium in Houston), 9 p.m., ESPN
Sept. 6 – Michigan State at Oregon, 6:30 p.m., Fox
Sept. 13 – Penn State at Rutgers, 8 p.m., Big Ten Network
Sept. 20 – Miami (Fla.) at Nebraska, 8 p.m., ABC/ESPN
Sept. 27 – Minnesota at Michigan, TBD/TBD
Oct. 4 – Nebraska at Michigan State, 8 p.m., ESPN/ESPN2
Oct. 11 – Penn State at Michigan, 7 p.m., ESPN/ESPN2
Oct. 18 – Nebraska at Northwestern, 7:30 p.m., BTN
Oct. 25 – Michigan at Michigan State, TBD/TBD
Nov. 1 – Maryland at Penn State, TBD/TBD
Nov. 8 – Ohio State at Michigan State, 8 p.m., ABC
Nov. 15 – Nebraska at Wisconsin, TBD/TBD
Nov. 22 – Wisconsin at Iowa, TBD/TBD
Nov. 28 – Nebraska at Iowa, TBD/TBD
Nov. 29 – Michigan at Ohio State, TBD/TBD
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/08/24/college-football-preview-revolution-technology-axon/14520225/
The future of CFB practice – mental reps without the wear and tear.
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Interesting article.
Goes along with the monitors FSU and others are wearing to avoid over-taxing the body to reduce injuries.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/08/24/college-football-preview-revolution-sportsource-analytics/14529695/
A story about the analytics company the playoff committee will use to provide data.
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http://bloguin.com/thestudentsection/2014/statistical-summer-carrying-the-run-of-play.html
The value of gaining 4.0 ypc or more in CFB.
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http://www.philsteele.com/Blogs/2014/AUG14/DBAugust23.html
Home field advantage for each school per Phil Steele.
Tied for #1: AL, Boise, LSU, OU, OR, OSU, SC and WI
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Blueprint for a Rebuild: Interviews with Bill Snyder, Stoops, and others on how to rebuild a program.
http://www.sbnation.com/longform/2014/8/20/5990929/college-football-coaches-programs-bob-stoops-bill-snyder
Though, Snyder did not rebuild KSU as much as build it from decades of futility.
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People forget just how awful Kansas State was pre-Snyder, The Wildcats were an even worse program than Iowa State.
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Speaking of Iowa State, the team’s leading rushers for 2000-2006 are now all dead. Seriously.
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa-state/isu-football/2014/08/26/hiawatha-rutland-iowa-state-cyclones/14636143/
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Good gosh that’s awful. Other players like a quarterback and a linebackers have died, too.
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http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/08/quick-lane-bowl-unveiled-detroit-lions/
The Detroit Bowl has a sponsor – Ford Motor Company’s Quick Lane Tire & Auto Center. The bowl will be known as the Quick Lane Bowl.
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This is hilarious:
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Not that this is at all surprising. I’m sure Indiana, Virginia, Wake Forest, Iowa State, Colorado, and other weak P5 programs all had numerous inquiries about future home and home series.
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I’m sure ku will dodge them all and continue to lose to Rice instead.
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Not really sure Mizzou fans should claim OOC scheduling superiority. Mizzou’s future OOC schedules leave much to be desired thus far:
http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/sec/missouri-tigers.php
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You mean because they’re empty? Okay… We’ll see what happens once they’re finally filled. The SEC put a freeze on adding new non-con games until recently. The only series Mizzou has added so far has been Purdue.
Over the last 15 years or so Mizzou has played Ohio State twice, Clemson twice, Michigan State twice, Arizona State twice, Ole Miss twice, Indiana twice, Illinois 6 or 8 times, Syracuse, UCF, New Mexico, etc. Not spectacular but not embarrassing either.
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Also, Wainscott, for a guy who claims to not be a Kansas fan you sure do talk about them a lot, and you sure do bash Mizzou a lot…
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By sharing a very funny story about how KU football is perversely in demand for being a bad P5 program?
Mentioning them because it’s fun to goad a Mizzou homer is the only reason why I mention KU on here when otherwise not in the news. I have no personal allegiance or connection to KU, and I’m not a fan or non-fan of its teams.
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I could see 5 calls to KU
Missouri has an historic rivalry with them, & you might see UK, Vandy, & the 2 Mississippi schools calling them. I don’t think anyone else would try and schedule them except as a 2nd P5 school on their schedule (and I think Mizzou might only look at them that way.
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The other two were probably Tennessee and Arkansas. Both programs are down in recent years, and a win against a weak opponent works better than a loss against a strong opponent; both schools will have enough of these in conference play.
As far as Missouri, Kansas is the most desired OOC opponent by the school and alumni (ask Andy). Tradition outweighs SOS for this. Kansas may have ended the series as much because they were tired of getting beat by Missouri every year as they did because the game went OOC.
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In the last year or so, Arkansas has set up Home & Homes with Texas Tech, Michigan, & TCU, and it still has an upcoming game with the Longhorns that was set up years ago. Unless they’re looking for a 2nd ‘P5’ game, they’re not going to schedule Kansas.
Right now, UT is supposedly finalizing a contract to play Georgia Tech in 2017 (http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/08/georgia-tech-tennessee-2017-chick-fil-a-kickoff-game-nearly-set/). If that is confirmed, they already have 1 P5 team scheduled every year all the way through 2018. I assure you the administration in Knoxville does not think the team will still be down in 2019, which is the year they ‘need’ to get a P5 team on the schedule.
Again, the ‘7 teams’ is almost certainly an exaggeration. I would think it’s less than the 5 schools I named. But it’s a rumor on twitter, so people think took it as fact.
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I highly doubt Mizzou called KU. Too much bad blood there. Those two school’s ain’t playing football against each other anytime soon outside of a bowl game.
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I don’t know that they ‘called’ them, but they have publicly stated they’d play them again. However, MU often has 2 home/home series going at the same time, so even if KU agreed to play them, I wouldn’t be surprised if MU would have another game against a P5 team in the same year.
Of course, MU officials have also talked about trying to play Illinois, another traditional rival from a border state. It was somewhat amusing when KU & Illinois instead scheduled a series against each other. Pretty much a public declaration that neither school sees themselves on the same level as MU.
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“Pretty much a public declaration that neither school sees themselves on the same level as MU.”
How is that? To me, its a public declaration that the two schools wanted to play each other and both had room in the schedule.
As for the public statements, that’s more for PR. Now, if Mizzou did call KU to schedule games, I’m sure KU would, if it even took the call, very quickly shoot it down and end the call. Such is the evident depths of KU’s anger at Mizzou. But I don’t put as much stock in public expressions of interest from anyone. Plus, if Mizzou did call, I’d expect Mizzou to leak the existence of such a call to the press as a extra tweak at KU (knowing KU won’t play them anyways, so might as well have some fun at KU’s expense)
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Missouri is completing HaHs this year with Toledo, UCF, and Indiana, which is clearly a public declaration that they see themselves on the same level as those teams. 2015 at Arkansas State.
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I’m sorry if anyone has posted the “Niche College Rankings” very bottom.
The BIG got all 14 members in the top 100, but two fall outside of the A+ range: Rutgers (73) and Northwestern (76).
The rest of the P5 faired better in terms of schools with an A+ rating, lowest rated schools.
The SEC got all members in the top 55 with an A+ rating.
The Big12 got all into the top 59 – A+ rating.
ACC got all members in the top 62 – A + rating. ND, not included, landed in the top 15.
The Pac12 had two outside of the A+ range: Cal (64) & Wash St (65).
** Methodology & BIG under microscope **
Methodology is cited. It is what it is. I think the “Student Survey Response” played a part in brining down the BIG’s numbers – Rutgers & Northwestern especially – plus the fact that these schools have certain reputations to shake. Notice the rest of the BIG places in the top 58 (12 teams), which would put it right behind the SEC and ahead of other P5 conferences.
Two indisputable facts: BIG has the best all-around attendance. So this list can partly suck it. And I think the BIG does the best in the Director’s Cup, overall depth – perhaps the Pac12 edges the BIG. But if so, barely.
PS I didn’t calculate average ratings per conference.
https://colleges.niche.com/rankings/best-athletics/
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Upon further review, see “NCAA Championship Score” under methodology. This metric really hurt a school like Penn State, which has won quite a few NCAA titles, but not in the 8 sports measured. This metric hurt a lot of schools with stronger than perceived, that is this rankings. athletic departments.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/106035/in-playoff-era-will-rose-stay-as-sweet
How will the Rose Bowl fare in the new CFB world?
An interesting tidbit from the sidebar (on whether the Rose will host the NCG someday):
One potential holdup is cost. Jenkins said the estimated price tag of hosting a national title game is between $13 and $15 million, with the host site not receiving any revenue from the game. That’s a change from the BCS era, when the host sites kept a chunk of the pie.
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http://bridgemi.com/2014/08/um-soars-msu-doesnt-on-freshmen-test-scores/
An article about ACT scores in the B10 (25th and 75th percentile, by school and overall). It’s focused on UM and MSU, but discusses broader issues applicable to other schools.
ACT scores for Big Ten freshmen in the 25th percentile of their class rose from 22.6 points on average in 2001 to 25.1 points last year, a 2.5 point increase. Those in the 75th percentile rose from 27.9 to 29.8 (A max ACT score is 36).
There’s a nice interactive plot of the numbers since 2001, too.
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@Brian – Very interesting data here. Northwestern and Michigan are unsurprisingly #1 and #2 in the Big Ten for top test scores, but the school that has really jumped up in terms of selectivity over the past decade is Ohio State. Illinois and Wisconsin were a clear tier above Ohio State for ACT scores back in 2001, but Ohio State has now eradicated that gap. This may explain much of Ohio State’s rise in the U.S. News rankings over the past few years. Ohio State rose to #52 last year, which had them tied with both Texas and Washington (who have long been perceived to be top “Public Ivies”).
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I’m guessing they are admitting a lot more out of staters. With the declining student population, its hard to raise standards unless you decrease attendance-and that hasn’t been the case.
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http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=65
Found a little data on national student populations. Shows a trend line from the 50s. College population has been pretty steadily rising. Student age population reached a peak in 1971 and declined until 1985. It didn’t reach prior levels until the mid-90s and peaked again in 2006.
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I often wonder what this increased selectivity will do on the athletic side in terms of fan interest. As the changes have occurred in the student body I think many of these kids are less well rounded where many did not participate in athletics in HS and may lack interest in athletics overall. I think we are already observing it to some extent with late arriving students or overall disinterest.
Out of state students have less interest in athletics of their school than the in state students in my opinion.
The B1G schools use to be a bit less selective on the undergraduate side while maintaining highly selective grad schools.
My thought is that part of the reason for increased selectivity is just sheer numbers. Many of kids of the baby boomer generation are now attending college and more and more kids are attending college while the schools have maintained or even slightly reduced undergrad enrollments.
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The sheer number of assumptions you make in your comment is staggering.
And, regarding your overall opinion that out of state students are less interested in athletics than in state students. Has this opinion has been informed by some fact/occurrence/data?
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@Wainscott. It’s my opinion. Not factual based research. It is what I observe on campuses when I recruit future employees. Anecdotal opinion. Many current students would share similar opinions. Obviously it’s a not a scientific survey.
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That’s fair.
I disagree with most of what you said, but my disagreement is also based on my opinion/interpretation/anecdotal evidence, so there are room for both views.
I do agree that B1G schools are now more selective, though;
However, on the point of more kids attending college, peak college (ie: peak number of high school graduates was actually in 2009, and that number is slowly declining now (though projected to match 2009 levels by the mid 2020’s.). http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/12/12/college-enrollment-falls-for-second-year-in-a-row .
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Mizzou’s enrollment over the last decade has grown from 25k to 35k, while their ACT average has climbed from 25 to 26. Had they stayed at 25k enrollment they may have gotten their ACT average up to 27 or 28 just by being more selective. But they made the institutional decision to grow, but only at a pace where they didn’t have to sacrifice student quality. It’s a balancing act. They’ve got a ways to go before hitting that 40-50k 27-28 ACT average that a lot of the Big Ten schools have. That seems to be the sweet spot.
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I think the change in interesting to watch. The difficult part is getting a real assessment on how schools compare with one another. Rankings are inherently biased, and some seem to rely on certain numbers that either mean little without context or are easily manipulate (for example, I believe it was Clemson that had all their graduates return money they gave them before graduation, which immediately boosted them several positions).
This is one area I think people miss with expansion. Athletics drive up applications. It’s basically been established at this point that having successful seasons in major sports sees an increase in applications. Simply being seen matters. Exposure is huge for a lot of schools, even already established ones. That’s something that doesn’t get discussed enough with the conference networks, I think. There is a lot of immeasurable value in simply being on TV and getting that viewership. I think both the SEC and Big Ten made very good moves in that regard in the last round of expansion. Students of NY/NJ and Maryland will serve the Big Ten well, as will Missouri and Texas for the SEC (and vice versa).
It’s so difficult to move in the rankings, since it isn’t as if the schools ahead of you are slacking. UK has made a much bigger commitment to research in recent years, for example, but it remains to be seen if they can actually make a big jump over other schools (I sadly have my doubts).
Moving to that ideal range will take a long time for Missouri. Essentially doubling your student body while increasing scores multiple spots will be a big task.
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Exposure is what the Longhorn Network was about. Texas was interested if it cost them money. Noone was sure it would make any money. That’s why A&M’s AD refused to consider going in with Texas on it. The former UT AD, commenting about the SEC Network, said (rough quote)–They will make a lot of money, but they will only be 1/14th of it. We will be on 24 hours a day.
Now none of these networks are going to get great ratings, but they are 24 hour a day infomercials. And the schools are getting paid for it.
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What value is a 24 hr infomercial if no one watches? I’ve already watched more SECN in its first two weeks than LHN since it started, which I’ve basically only seen briefly as I surf by to another channel.
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Mizzou spent about a billion dollars expanding their campus, increasing capacity from around 25k to around 42k. Now the goal is to fill it to capacity. Empty capacity basically means lost money, kind of like empty seats on an airplane. At the same time, Mizzou doesn’t want to open up enrollment and take less qualified students. So the strategy has been to recruit heavily for out of state students. Mizzou currently has around 5,000 students from Illinois and another 2,000 or so from Texas. Joining the SEC was as much about expanding Mizzou’s exposre nationally as it was about money or sports. Need to attract as many applicants nationally as possible.
Expanding capacity to 42k was an institutional decision made for a number of reasons. They wanted to improve research capacity, and also to gain more influence with the state legislature after Missouri State had made a big push to increase enrollment and got it up over 20k about ten years ago.
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Bill Byrne refused to “go along” with the LHN for two reasons. First he wanted a conference network.
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/27699/aggies-ad-weighs-in-on-big-12-network
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/big-12-creating-a-television-network_b86087
Second, he was unwilling to go along with Dodds on a joint A&M/UT network as the deal was structured to to split expenses 50/50 but Dodds wanted content and revenue to favor UT by as much as 70/30. Byrne discussed this openly at a few A&M alumni meetings and implied it when he told the DMN, ““Three or four years ago we talked about doing a joint flagship channel,” Byrne said. “I liked the idea, but our fans should know me better than to think I would pass on a $150 million deal for Texas A&M. That never happened.”
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-longhorns/20110901-texas-ad-texas-am-turned-down-network-offer-with-longhorns.ece
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@cc
You aren’t the target audience.
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@franktheag
Byrne likes to stretch the truth a lot. When asked about a “Lone Star Network” his response was something like, “I never turned down a $15 million a year network,” which was true. He turned down an opportunity to participate in a network that no one knew if it would make any money.
Texas and Nebraska funded the conference network study. Noone else was interested. Not Byrne. And note that he didn’t “say” A&M was offered 30% of the network. It was like his never turned down a $15 million a year network comment. Byrne is just trying to defend his bad decisions.
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Bullet:
Maybe im not UT’s target, but why do they need the WWL if they only want local fans and alumni? I’m pretty sure my money is as green as everyone else’s. That it the target for ESPN, unless you’re suggesting they are just donating and spending a billion. Or that preventing the P16 is saving them far more than that.
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ESPN wants everyone. UT wants, fans, alumni, parents, potential students. ESPN wants to maximize profit. UT wants to maximize exposure. So UT probably would have offered a lower price if they were determining the carriage rate.
If UT was playing like they were the first decade of this century, the games would draw more of “everyone” and more of “fans, alumni, parents, potential students.”
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I fit many of those criteria.
My point, as you know, is that a single school doesn’t have the inventory to come anywhere close to supplying a 24/7 channel adequately. If there were a B12N I’d probably have seen far more of UT. Every in conference away game in every sport, as well as the home games, would be the network’s to broadcast.
It is what it is.
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@bullet – Just because Byrne’s public comments dispute your input doesn’t mean he stretches the truth. His comments simply conflict with your input above. Quit spinning or post something better than your opinion. Fact is, Byrne supported a conference network and wasn’t interesed in being a secondary partner in the LHN.
To classify this as a “poor decision” given the facts as the stand today is completely misguided. Bryne was correct in rejecting the LHN since it has limited exposure and is a failure.
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Note that a tsunami of international applicants have driven down acceptance rates (and driven up test scores) at many B10 schools (especially those well-known for engineering like UIUC, PU, UMich, UW-Madison, & UMinny in some fields).
The admission rate in to CS in Engineering at UIUC is now in the single digits.
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When I first joined the OSU faculty in 1972, it was primarily an undergraduate teaching college with some faculty who did research. The resulting low ranking drove the Trustees and senior administrators nuts, and there ensued a 30 year war to change things. Substantial externally funded research became necessary for promotion and tenure and even hiring. Salaries became dependent on getting external research funding. One junior faculty member I know was told by the engineering dean that the research quota was $300,000 per year, or more. Open admissions was replaced by ever increasing ACT and SAT test scores. My youngest daughter was rejected for admission.
By the time I retired in 2007, OSU was a regular research institute with few vestiges of its former self. Trustees, administrators, and senior faculty are happy. Junior faculty lead lives of desperation and fear. Collegiality is remember fondly by emeriti faculty. Whether the new OSU serves the people of Ohio is another matter. They wanted a college for their kids, not a research institute.
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bob sykes,
“Whether the new OSU serves the people of Ohio is another matter. They wanted a college for their kids, not a research institute.”
A few points:
1. They also used to pay enough taxes to make OSU inexpensive and open to everyone. Now they don’t want to do that, so the school has to largely fund itself through research, out of state students and tuition hikes. They could have the old OSU back if they were willing to pay for it.
2. The regional OSU campuses do a good job of serving a lot of the people that the main campus now rejects. Many of those students prosper more from staying local on a smaller campus with more students like them.
3. More research leads to more high tech companies in the state. That means high paying jobs for the residents.
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Disagree with Brian on this one.
1. Taxes are plenty high to have an Ohio State that serves Ohio students. The school has been under construction for 25+ years with no end in site – they spend money at a crazy rate. Plus the current tuition is much higher than KY or IN, and those states have lower taxes
2. Most students don’t want to go to regional campuses, they are forced there. Not sure how this is a benefit.
3. Can you name any high tech companies that are in Ohio due to OSU? What high tech research has OSU done to help Ohio?
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@Mark – Long-term, though, pretty much all of the Big Ten schools *have* to move to a model where more out-of-state and international students are going to be part of the enrollment just to tread water. It’s no longer a choice or an aim to be elitist. The Midwest’s projected youth demographics are weak compared to all other regions of the country, so smart institutions are solidifying their reputations today in order to ensure that they’re not caught holding the bag 20 years from now when college enrollment is lower (along with much fiercer competition). Ohio State shouldn’t be lowering its standards in order to fill some type of in-state quota. Instead, the other Ohio public universities should be raising their games so that they become viable academic alternatives to Ohio State, which is what would really provide a broad array of opportunities to Ohio residents across-the-board.
In a related note, I had a conversation with an Illinois admissions person a few weeks ago about this same topic/different state: Illinois residents that complain that their kids aren’t getting into Illinois and blame out-of-state and international students (i.e. “the kids that went to New Trier and got a 32 on their ACT and didn’t get into U of I”). He said that U of I is actually admitting more Illinois students than ever, but those students have higher grades and test scores than the previous generation. As a result, the kids that Illinois is accepting have a lot more options and are fiercely competed over by many colleges. So, the Illinois admissions office is much more concerned about the in-state students that they’ve accepted choosing to go to places like Michigan, Wisconsin or Washington University in St. Louis as opposed to placating any in-state students that they’ve rejected. With Ohio State’s ACT scores now in line with Illinois and Wisconsin, I could see how Ohio State’s admissions office is likely looking at their in-state/out-of-state balance situation in the exact same manner.
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Mark,
“1. Taxes are plenty high to have an Ohio State that serves Ohio students. The school has been under construction for 25+ years with no end in site – they spend money at a crazy rate. Plus the current tuition is much higher than KY or IN, and those states have lower taxes”
Click to access cfb-1997.pdf
In 1996 (as far back as I could find in a quick search), state funding was greater than total tuition and provided 48% of the general funds budget. The state provides 9.5% of the funding for OSU now. Student fees provide 18%. That’s why they keep raising tuition and recruiting out of state students who pay more tuition. It’s also why they put such a focus on research.
http://www.osu.edu/osutoday/stuinfo.php#budget
“2. Most students don’t want to go to regional campuses, they are forced there. Not sure how this is a benefit.”
First, many of them do want to go there. OSU magazines and publications are full of quotes and stories from/about them. Second, they are sent there because better students beat them out for slots at the main campus. Third, many of them transfer to the main campus after a couple of years taking their basic classes for a lower tuition than at the main campus while getting time to adapt to college. Fourth, many of the rural students aren’t ready for the culture shock of going to Columbus in one fell swoop.
Finally, many students should want to go to a good school. That doesn’t mean they all should get in. Wanting to go and being ready to go aren’t the same thing. Deserving to go is yet another thing. Besides, without continually expanding, how is the main campus supposed to avoid becoming more selective? The main campus undergrad enrollment is up almost 24% since 2000, but it was the same basic size in 1969 as in 2000 (it grew and then shrank back in between those years). Meanwhile, the state has grown and the percentage of children seeking a college degree has gone way up. Should OSU grow to 60,000 undergrads or should they get more selective? Doesn’t having a good school serve Ohio? Now the top students don’t feel compelled to leave the state to get an elite education. Or does serving Ohio solely mean letting any idiot with a diploma go to whatever college they wish for pocket change?
“3. Can you name any high tech companies that are in Ohio due to OSU?”
Minor companies like Honda, GE and Battelle pay for a ton of research at OSU. OSU is one of the major medical research hospitals in the nation, bringing lots of high tech jobs.
Click to access Ohio-State-Industry-Partners.pdf
That’s a map and list of the companies OSU works with in research.
“What high tech research has OSU done to help Ohio?”
A lot. How about the giant research hospital that is developing new treatments for various diseases and conditions? How about important research in collaboration with Honda and GE, keeping large high tech employers in state and employing Ohioans? They put hundreds of millions of dollars into the local economy, too.
http://development.ohio.gov/bs_thirdfrontier/default.htm
The government and voters of Ohio seem to see the value of OSU research as they approved the Ohio Third Frontier program which is a $2.1B program with a lot of the money supporting collaborative research between OSU and Ohio companies.
The $2.1 billion initiative supports existing industries that are transforming themselves with new, globally competitive products and fostering the formation and attraction of new companies in emerging industry sectors. Ohio Third Frontier provides funding to Ohio technology-based companies, universities, nonprofit research institutions, and other organizations to create new technology-based products, companies, industries, and jobs.
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Mark, I have to agree with Brian.
Many kids choose MiamiU for their well-regarded b-school. Many kids choose Cincy for their various highly-ranked programs (in the arts and architecture, mostly, but also others) as well as their well-regarded co-op program. OhioU has a renown honors college. Both MiamiU and OhioU supposedly have an Ivy-style atmosphere (in terms of a college setting). There are other publics in OH with programs that I have heard people extol.
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Not having those big grad programs can be an advantage for an undergraduate who doesn’t have to take all of their freshmen and sophomore level classes from Teaching Assistants and wait until their Junior or Senior year to have some classes from Professors.
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BruceMcF,
“Not having those big grad programs can be an advantage for an undergraduate who doesn’t have to take all of their freshmen and sophomore level classes from Teaching Assistants and wait until their Junior or Senior year to have some classes from Professors.”
I went to OSU and never had that experience. I had 1 class taught by a TA, and that was my required English class.
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But OSU is a massive school with over 7k freshmen each year. Surely your singular experience of unknown vintage may not be representative of the norm regarding TA taught classes?
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Aha ~ your anomalous personal experience at OSU is likely to color your perception.
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Brian’s experience at OSU was pretty similar to mine at Texas. The only class I had taught by a TA was the introductory English class. Now I had some mass 200-300 student underclassmen courses that had T/TH lectures by the professor with 30 person “labs” taught by TAs on M/W.
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Wainscott,
“But OSU is a massive school with over 7k freshmen each year.”
Shouldn’t that make them more likely to rely on TAs, not less likely? If a large state school isn’t the type that relies on TAs, which are the schools with large grad programs that do? The elite private schools?
“Surely your singular experience of unknown vintage may not be representative of the norm regarding TA taught classes?”
Where is the evidence that the norm is to have all of your freshmen and sophomore level classes taught by TAs? I’ve heard that claim made about large schools, but usually not by alumni.
As anecdotal evidence, of course my experience may not be representative. Even at OSU at the time, it may well have varied by college. However, the large grad programs with all the research money are medicine, science and engineering and I was in engineering. A history major may have had a different experience, but I’m not sure the large grad programs doing research can be blamed for any such difference.
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BruceMcF,
“Aha ~ your anomalous personal experience at OSU is likely to color your perception.”
All I did was state my personal experience as a counterpoint to your blanket statement. I didn’t use it as a basis to make a larger argument.
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I had one class taught by a TA/grad student at NU. It was one of the best classes I had there.
The guy is now a professor at SOAS.
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Miami really is pretty highly regarded overall. It doesn’t have the graduate programs like Ohio St., but it is on pretty much all the “public ivy” lists. Ohio St. doesn’t make many of those. The original list included Miami, the U of California campuses, Michigan, Texas, North Carolina, Virginia, Vermont and William & Mary.
Now Miami and Ohio U. are different from the “regional campuses” referred to. Those are like Ohio St. University at Lima, Mansfield, etc.
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bullet,
“Miami really is pretty highly regarded overall. It doesn’t have the graduate programs like Ohio St., but it is on pretty much all the “public ivy” lists. Ohio St. doesn’t make many of those. The original list included Miami, the U of California campuses, Michigan, Texas, North Carolina, Virginia, Vermont and William & Mary.”
https://ink.niche.com/public-ivies-bigger-better/
OSU didn’t make the original list (1985), but they were in “Greenes’ Guide to Public Ivies” published in 2001.
In their 2001 book “The Public Ivies: America’s Flagship Public Universities,” Howard and Matthew Greene took Moll’s initial 1985 list and expanded on it to include 30 of the best public colleges and universities, dividing them by regions including Northeastern, Mid-Atlantic, Southern, Western, and Great Lakes & Midwest.
I’ll take top 30.
“Now Miami and Ohio U. are different from the “regional campuses” referred to. Those are like Ohio St. University at Lima, Mansfield, etc.”
Yes, exactly. Plus, Ohio also has all those other MAC schools (Akron, Bowling Green, Kent State, Toledo) and UC. And a ton of small schools, too. I don’t understand why OSU should be expected to be an open admissions school with only Ohio residents.
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My comments that Miami was rated when Ohio St. wasn’t on at least one list, and a rather elite list, was really targeted at Frank’s comment about the other Ohio universities raising their game. Miami is already there academically.
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bullet,
“My comments that Miami was rated when Ohio St. wasn’t on at least one list, and a rather elite list, was really targeted at Frank’s comment about the other Ohio universities raising their game. Miami is already there academically.”
I know. I was expanding on that to bring it all back to the original discussion of what OSU’s role should be. Miami has been a great school for a long time, better than OSU for most of their history. Now that OSU-Columbus has moved up, it’s old role is being filled by the regional campuses and the MAC schools besides Miami.
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I agree with Bob’s opinion. Many Ohioans feel that OSU no longer serves the state as well as it once did and admits too many out of state and out of country students. There are many disappointed alumni each year as their kids are rejected for admission. Much different from Kentucky or Indiana where it is easier to get into the state schools. Will be interesting to see what happens in 20 years – will the general public turn against the school their kids can’t get into?
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NHL in Vegas? Bettman will find a way to screw it up.
http://www.si.com/nhl/2014/08/26/report-nhl-expansion-las-vegas-done-deal
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Like I said, Bettman will find a way to screw this up:
http://www.si.com/nhl/2014/08/26/report-toronto-seattle-quebec-city-join-vegas-2017-nhl-expansion
Because one way to make the NHL a worse product is to have even more diluted rosters.
Plus, 34 teams? Don’t they now complain about unbalanced divisions/conferences with 30? How will 34 fix that? Why not just go to 36 then? Or why not expand to 32 and relocate 2 existing teams?
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I think in the end it will be two expansion franchises followed by one relocation. The NHL, though about as poorly run league as there is, cannot be that stupid to add four new franchises. My prediction would be Vegas and Seattle with expansions and Florida moves to Quebec. Although a second team in Toronto makes the most sense, the Leafs would never accept it.
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There was talk of the Leafs accepting it with the help of a large check from any prospective owner/strong arming by other owners who think a second Toronto team would generate more money than other potential options.
Your plan is rational, and I agree that would be the best way to go. But we all know Bettman is stubbornly insisting on a team in Arizona and in South Florida, despite regular monetary losses and weak attendance. The theory behind those two clubs is sound (capture snowbirds and new residents from the north while trying to generate new fans over time), but in reality the strategy, as applied to hockey has failed. (not working all that much better in baseball for that matter).
Of the 4 potential cities, the 2 with prospective owners willing to pay the highest expansion fee will get expansion teams (probably second Toronto and Vegas/Seattle), and the other 2 would get relocated teams (probably not Arizona and Florida, so maybe Nashville and Columbus?
Personally, I’m surprised Portland, Ore isn’t on the list of potential cities.
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A 4 team expansion and the formation of 4 separate, time zone based conferences consisting of 8/9 teams each would be a big improvement on the current alignment; make half the regular season schedule and the first two rounds of the playoffs intra-conference and it becomes a HUGE improvement. (If the players union whine about imbalance just have a play-in game among the 4th and 5th place finishers in the 9 team conferences.)
Dare I dream the Blackhawks play zero games in the Pacific time zone every 3rd year?
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But the quality of play, already reduced because of expansion and some competition from overseas leagues, an extra 4 teams will really highlight the mediocrity and further devalue the play in the regular season.
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That might be by necessity, as it would be hard to schedule home-and-homes (2 games each) with possibly 26 “OOC” teams without cutting back significantly on the intra-conference schedule. I think a more likely scenario is where, depending on previous season’s finish, you have a system like the NFL where, using the 2013-14 Blackhawks as an example would have H/H against the other 3rd-place and 6th place in division teams (12) plus guaranteed H/H matchups against the remaing 6 (12) teams in one whole division. The balance would be intraconference which would be 8 games per conference opponent (56) – a total of 80 games for an 32-team league. Going to 34 or 36 would complicated that given the inherent inbalances and odd numbers.
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For scheduling purposes, a 32 team league with 4 eight team conferences is perfect. A h/h with two conferences and a 4h/4a split with the third (all rotating yearly) is 40 games, with the balance of 42 games consisting of 6 games each against 7 conference opponents. Every team basically plays the same schedule and visits 27 of 31 road arenas every season, missing a city outside its conference only once every eight years. With 34 teams, it is still possible to visit half the league (h/h vs conference 1, h/h one half of conference 2, one game home or away for the balance vs conference 2 and an even or 4/5-5/4 h/a split for conference 3 making for 40 games) or schedule a h/h with conference 1, visit conference 2 and host conference 3 for 34/35 games with the balance of the schedule consisting of intra-conference games. Not as neat perhaps but less travel for teams and more games within their home time zone.
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http://www.bizjournals.com/birmingham/slideshow/2014/08/25/sneak-peek-inside-the-new-college-football-hall-of.html
This is a slideshow of the new College Football Hall of Fame in Atlanta. It’s very interactive and impressive. I apologize if this has been posted already.
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Looks decent, but pricing seems a bit off. $20 per adult and $17 per kid aged 3 and up? That $74 for a family of 4 just to walk in the door.
Also, apparently the plaques and busts from the HOF in South Bend are now in storage in Texas, intentionally not included in the new building. http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/college-football-shrine-not-your-grandfathers-hall/ngycd/
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Good and Bad of Neutral-site games:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24682314/why-neutral-site-games-help-and-hurt-college-football
Interesting bit I did not know:
“The media rights of neutral-site games belong to the conferences. But which one when there’s a non conference neutral-site game?
“That gets worked out by the conferences as they have discussions,” SEC executive associate commissioner Mark Womack said. “I sense there’s an interest of exploring more of these opportunities from bowl cities. They have their challenges. They have to raise the dollars to make it worthwhile for the institutions to give up a home game for the neutral site team. Then there’s the television issues.”
That point was emphasized last year in a league-wide memo Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany issued after the Wisconsin-LSU series was finalized in 2013. According to the Cedar Rapids Gazette, Delany’s letter said the Big Ten supported neutral sites as long as at least half of the series occur in Big Ten territory and under the league’s television agreements. Any arrangement would be “disapproved” if a Big Ten team was not the home team in at least half of the games or if it was a one-game event outside the league’s TV umbrella.”
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Very interesting move by Stanford here. Very risky, but could yield a big return:
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Maryland is adding a new Cowboys Stadium-like message board to what’s now known as xfinity center (the building formerly known as Comcast), and since the wrestling and volleyball coaches are quoted in the release, those teams’ matches probably are moving to the main arena to join the Terp basketball teams. (Byrd Stadium also is getting a scoreboard upgrade.) http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209621081&DB_OEM_ID=29700
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Penn State bowl ban may be shortened:
http://fansided.com/2014/08/27/report-penn-state-bowl-ban-lifted-2015/#!bLE89B
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As it should be. Penn State was not given due process in the first place, and the players and coaches had absolutely nothing to do with what that sicko did. Continuing these bowl bans and scholarship reductions will not do a single thing towards healing Sandusky’s victims, nor will it prevent sexual abuse anywhere from happening.
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Michael in Raleigh,
“As it should be.”
Not necessarily. A reward for going above and beyond what was asked has already been given.
“Penn State was not given due process in the first place,”
They chose to plea bargain. You voluntarily give up due process when you do that.
“and the players and coaches had absolutely nothing to do with what that sicko did.”
But the NCAA blamed the university and its fans for creating an environment where keeping the football program’s image clean was more important than immediately and decisively dealing with said sicko. Therefore, the NCAA punished the school. The players all had the chance to leave without penalty and/or chose to join PSU after the punishment was announced. They can’t play the sympathy card now.
“Continuing these bowl bans and scholarship reductions will not do a single thing towards healing Sandusky’s victims, nor will it prevent sexual abuse anywhere from happening.”
So? It’s punishment. Prison doesn’t heal victims either.
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Brian:
> Not necessarily. A reward for going above and beyond what was asked has already been given.
First of all, the Penn State BoT wanted the penalties – indeed, they wrote the consent decree. Second, Penn State has made no meaningful changes. This is all part of the charade and deceit.
> They chose to plea bargain. You voluntarily give up due process when you do that.
The “they” who chose to plea bargain didn’t want due process and still don’t. (If you were paying attention, you’d know that they are right now actively fighting it.) This is also part of the charade and deceit.
Keep watching, Brian – you still have no idea what you’re talking about.
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Carl,
“First of all, the Penn State BoT wanted the penalties – indeed, they wrote the consent decree.”
And?
“Second, Penn State has made no meaningful changes.”
That’s not what the independent investigator says.
“The “they” who chose to plea bargain didn’t want due process and still don’t.”
So? The point is that PSU wasn’t denied due process. PSU chose not to have due process.
“If you were paying attention, you’d know that they are right now actively fighting it.”
I know, and I couldn’t care less. You don’t get to take back your guilty plea.
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> So? The point is that PSU wasn’t denied due process. PSU chose not to have due process.
> …
> I know, and I couldn’t care less. You don’t get to take back your guilty plea.
Brian, I get that you want to pretend superiority, but not only are you grossly missing the point, you are also misrepresenting the truth. The people who pled guilty DO NOT WANT to take the plea back – even with Pennsylvania appellate court judges telling them them that the “plea deal” was likely illegal and won’t stand up in court.
There are many others, however, who believe there was and is a real, ongoing coverup, and those people want the truth to be made public. The PSU BoT (along with the governor, Freeh, and the NCAA) have been fighting this at every turn. But the truth – at least much of it – will come out.
The reason I sometimes engage you on this, Brian, is to make public note of your nonsense criticisms.
Keep watching.
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Carl,
“but not only are you grossly missing the point, you are also misrepresenting the truth.”
No, I’m not. On both counts.
MiR complained that PSU didn’t get due process. I pointed out that they rejected it in favor of a plea deal. That doesn’t miss the point, nor is it not true.
You, on the other hand, are talking about factions within PSU that are not relevant to what we were discussing.
“There are many others, however, who believe there was and is a real, ongoing coverup,”
Conspiracy nuts are everywhere. It keeps aluminum foil sales high.
“and those people want the truth to be made public.”
Lots of people want to know the “truth” about Area 51, too.
“But the truth – at least much of it – will come out.”
Uh huh.
“Keep watching.”
As you’ve been saying for literally years without anything big coming out.
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Brian:
> No, I’m not. On both counts.
>
> MiR complained that PSU didn’t get due process. I pointed
> out that they rejected it in favor of a plea deal. That doesn’t
> miss the point, nor is it not true.
Nice try, Brian, but that’s not all you have said. For example:
“I know, and I couldn’t care less. You don’t get to take back your guilty plea.”
Brian, although your equivocal use of the words “Penn State”, “you”, and “they” often imply that those who want due process for Penn State have already given up that right by making a “plea deal”, this is, in fact, patently untrue. You have been making the same false and misleading arguments for a couple years now.
Furthermore, while it may be your opinion that one group of people is allowed to give up the right to due process for another group of people, so far no Pennsylvania court has ruled that way regarding the Penn State BoT’s “plea”. Moreover, Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court has said that the consent decree is likely illegal and that the Penn State BoT likely breached their fiduciary duties in allowing it. Related issues are in dispute in the Paterno et al. v. NCAA case.
Yes, you are indeed both grossly missing the point and misrepresenting the truth.
> Conspiracy nuts are everywhere. It keeps aluminum foil sales high.
Brian, I understand that you like to pretend superiority and are willing to try ridicule to support your pretense. Nonetheless, you have no idea what you are talking about in this case.
Make fun all you want, but keep watching. Maybe you’ll learn something.
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Carl,
“Nice try, Brian, but that’s not all you have said.”
It’s all that I said before you interjected your irrelevancies.
“Brian, although your equivocal use of the words “Penn State”, “you”, and “they” often imply that those who want due process for Penn State have already given up that right by making a “plea deal”, this is, in fact, patently untrue.”
I’m not implying anything. I’m saying PSU made a plea deal. What various factions at PSU now want or think is irrelevant to that. Whether the current powers at PSU would have made the same decision is irrelevant. Whether the process seemed right or fair or legal is irrelevant to that. I’m simply stating what actually happened. If the courts invalidate the consent decree, which is largely pointless as the punishment would end before the appeals would, it still wouldn’t change what happened.
“Furthermore, while it may be your opinion that one group of people is allowed to give up the right to due process for another group of people,”
There is no other group of people, just PSU. It is a single legal entity, and there are people invested with the power to make legal decisions on its behalf.
“Moreover, Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court has said that the consent decree is likely illegal”
Likely illegal is a meaningless statement from a court. Unless the courts with jurisdiction (plural because there would be appeals) rule the consent decree invalid, it’s legal.
“Make fun all you want”
I will. How do the Illuminati and the Bilderberg group factor in to all this? Did aliens abduct that missing DA?
“but keep watching”
Yawn.
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> There is no other group of people, just PSU. It is a single
> legal entity, and there are people invested with the power
> to make legal decisions on its behalf.
No, Brian, you are wrong.
Although it is true that Penn State is a single legal entity and its BoT is invested with the power to make legal decisions on its behalf, it is not true that there are no other groups of people relevant to the “plea” (the consent decree).
That’s part of the basis on which the Paterno plaintiffs were granted standing and Penn State had to be formally added as defendants in that lawsuit.
Both the judge in the Paterno et al. v. NCAA lawsuit and the judges in the Corman and McCord v. NCAA lawsuit have acknowledged this.
> Likely illegal is a meaningless statement from a court.
> Unless the courts with jurisdiction (plural because there
> would be appeals) rule the consent decree invalid, it’s legal.
Brian, it *was* from a court with jurisdiction – an appeals court in a legal decision about the case.
You really don’t know what you’re talking about.
> I will [make fun]. How do the Illuminati and the Bilderberg group
> factor in to all this? Did aliens abduct that missing DA?
Well, that just might be your best strategy here.
I’ll continue to point out your factual mistakes and nonsense arguments.
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> There is no other group of people, just PSU. It is a single
> legal entity, and there are people invested with the power
> to make legal decisions on its behalf.
“No, Brian, you are wrong.
Although it is true that Penn State is a single legal entity and its BoT is invested with the power to make legal decisions on its behalf,”
So you agree with me, but I’m wrong.
“it is not true that there are no other groups of people relevant to the “plea” (the consent decree).”
It is true in the context of the original discussion. You’re the one trying to shoehorn other groups into the discussion because the plea is relevant to them. The plea wasn’t what was being discussed, PSU’s due process was what was under discussion. No other group is relevant to that even if the plea impacted the other group.
> Likely illegal is a meaningless statement from a court.
> Unless the courts with jurisdiction (plural because there
> would be appeals) rule the consent decree invalid, it’s legal.
“Brian, it *was* from a court with jurisdiction”
That’s only 1 phrase from the sentence. A court just saying something is likely illegal is meaningless in terms of the law. A court issuing an injunction or declaring the decree invalid or something similar would actually mean something.
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Okay, Brian, since you are now claiming that your words make sense in a previous context, let’s examine that context carefully.
Carl:
> it is not true that there are no other groups of people
> relevant to the “plea” (the consent decree).
Brian:
> It is true in the context of the original discussion.
First of all, your claim (“There is no other group of people”) was NOT made in the context of the “original discussion”. Second, your claim was made in your *third* reply – and in direct response – to *me* about a point that was NOT part of the original discussion.
And, again, the claim itself is false. There are other groups of people that are legally relevant to the “plea”, as multiple trial and appellate judges have already acknowledged.
Carl:
> Moreover, Pennsylvania Commonwealth Court has
> said that the consent decree is likely illegal and that
> the Penn State BoT likely breached their fiduciary
> duties in allowing it.
Brian:
> Likely illegal is a meaningless statement from a court
> [even from an appellate court in a written decision in
> the case].
Ah, yes, of course – appellate courts waste time writing meaningless statements about important matters in a case when explaining their decisions. (Is this the kind of thing you tell your clients?)
Brian, I don’t mean to impugn your legal acumen, but that’s a nonsense argument. (Not to mention that it was a claim made to *me* and not part of the “original discussion”.)
Maybe you should stick to making fun.
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A reward for going above and beyond what was asked has already been given.
But as I recall, you didn’t agree with that reward either — even though, in the criminal justice context (which appears to be the analogy you’re relying on), convicted criminals frequently do get “time off for good behavior”.
If you accept the premise that a punishment can be reduced for good post-conviction behavior, I see no reason in principle why it could not be done a second time.
They chose to plea bargain. You voluntarily give up due process when you do that.
If someone holds a gun to your head, and says “Your money or your life,” and you choose to hand over the money, I would not exactly call that “voluntary”. Whether or not you agree with the punishment, there is no rational argument that Penn State had any realistic choice over whether to accept it.
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Marc Shepherd,
“But as I recall, you didn’t agree with that reward either”
No, I didn’t. Once you select a punishment, you should stay the course. Good behavior after the fact shouldn’t change the punishment.
“even though, in the criminal justice context (which appears to be the analogy you’re relying on), convicted criminals frequently do get “time off for good behavior”.”
Because jails have a crowding issue.
“If you accept the premise that a punishment can be reduced for good post-conviction behavior, I see no reason in principle why it could not be done a second time.”
I didn’t say it couldn’t, I said it shouldn’t necessarily be done.
“If someone holds a gun to your head, and says “Your money or your life,” and you choose to hand over the money, I would not exactly call that “voluntary”.”
If a DA holds the death sentence out as an option and you choose life in prison instead, I consider that voluntary.
“Whether or not you agree with the punishment, there is no rational argument that Penn State had any realistic choice over whether to accept it.”
Of course there is. Plenty of people have made that rational argument online and elsewhere. Even a subset of PSU’s own fans have said they shouldn’t have accepted it, which means they think it was a voluntary choice.
You trot out that “no rational argument” line a lot for things that people frequently discuss. Disagreeing with you doesn’t automatically make people irrational.
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The NCAA wasn’t following normal procedures or being rational (even by NCAA’s limited standards of being rational and following procedures). So death penalty or plea bargain IS like someone holding a gun to your head. You read more and more about the NCAA members being disturbed about the Penn St. process. You had a small group of emotional presidents (or worried about publicity if they weren’t hard on PSU) getting ready to tar and feather and run PSU out of town on a rail. The NCAA was judge, jury, prosecutor and executioner. So it is really nothing at all like a DA plea bargaining.
And if you take the more sinister publicity concerns, well the public isn’t focused on it as much anymore (not that the public’s opinion has changed much) so they can be more lenient now.
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convicted criminals frequently do get “time off for good behavior”.”
Because jails have a crowding issue.
The possibility of a commutation of sentence is an ancient custom, long predating the over-crowding of jails.
“Whether or not you agree with the punishment, there is no rational argument that Penn State had any realistic choice over whether to accept it.”
Of course there is. Plenty of people have made that rational argument online and elsewhere. Even a subset of PSU’s own fans have said they shouldn’t have accepted it, which means they think it was a voluntary choice.
The fact that you can find someone who says it, does not make it rational: the Flat Earth Society still exists. Fans, of course, are renowned for views unhinged from reality.
As I recall, PSU’s president at the time accepted the NCAA’s judgment unilaterally, and when challenged, told the rest of the board that he believed he had no other choice.
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bullet,
“The NCAA wasn’t following normal procedures”
True.
“or being rational”
Really? Back that up with proof.
“So death penalty or plea bargain IS like someone holding a gun to your head.”
Except that it has been upheld as permissible by courts, while holding a gun to their head hasn’t been.
“You read more and more about the NCAA members being disturbed about the Penn St. process. You had a small group of emotional presidents (or worried about publicity if they weren’t hard on PSU) getting ready to tar and feather and run PSU out of town on a rail.”
So your complaint is that presidents were jumping on the public opinion bandwagon, and your evidence is that presidents are now jumping on the public opinion bandwagon headed in the other direction?
Also, it is pure speculation what the NCAA was getting ready to do. PSU struck a deal before anything happened. The “death penalty” was discussed, but the public was discussing that before the NCAA did. You and everyone else have no idea what the final punishment actually would have been if PSU hadn’t signed the decree. PSU has claimed one thing, the NCAA board has claimed another and the actual truth is probably different from both of those positions.
“The NCAA was judge, jury, prosecutor and executioner.”
It always is. But in this case there was no jury, prosecutor or executioner since PSU pleaded guilty to the judge before any hearing took place.
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Marc Shepherd,
“The possibility of a commutation of sentence is an ancient custom, long predating the over-crowding of jails.”
Yes, but frequently doing it was never an ancient custom. That came about as jails filled up faster than people wanted to pay to build new ones.
“The fact that you can find someone who says it, does not make it rational:”
The fact that you disagree with it doesn’t make irrational.
“As I recall, PSU’s president at the time accepted the NCAA’s judgment unilaterally, and when challenged, told the rest of the board that he believed he had no other choice.”
So? Is that supposed to be proof of something? Just because someone said it doesn’t make it true.
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WSJ on declining student attendance at CFB games:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/at-college-football-games-student-sections-likely-to-have-empty-seats-1409188244?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_business
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Interesting:
http://regressing.deadspin.com/august-is-a-sports-wasteland-the-nba-or-nhl-playoffs-sh-1627157035/+kylenw
While I think the author overstates the success the NHL would get by changing its season so that the playoffs are in the summer, I happen to think this could definitely benefit the NBA.
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The obvious downside is that so many people take vacations that it could hurt TV ratings and possibly ticket sales. Also, the NHL would really struggle to maintain quality ice in some of these arenas in July and August. AC can only do so much.
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New WSJ Grid of Shame:
http://online.wsj.com/news/interactive/SHAME082714?ref=SB10001424052970203937904580118002691523946#
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http://espn.go.com/new-york/college-football/story/_/id/11427147/rutgers-scarlet-knights-sell-first-big-ten-football-game
RU has sold out the PSU game and all of their season tickets.
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Novelty effect. It won’t last if hey don’t win.
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Also Rutgers has one of the smallest stadiums in the Big Ten.
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You could replace both of those comments with Missouri.
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Andy, for someone who knows zero about Rutgers or its support in NJ, you sure have a ot of opinions. Just one question. Will you ever get past the rejection of Missouri by the B1G. You should be thrilled that they are not in the Big 12, instead of hanging around here complaining.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/08/28/college-football-offseason-coach-player-access/14753531/
A recent rule change may help more freshmen see the field this year.
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At least we didn’t embarrass ourselves on the first night. 🙂
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It’s a reasonably important win for the B10. Experts had low expectations for both teams this year, so the B10 getting a road win over the P12 is a nice bump.
SC fans certainly aren’t too happy right now.
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Also, Temple crushed Vandy, putting another dent in the SEC East’s reputation. Meanwhile, MS didn’t look very good until the 4th quarter.
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Vandy has sucked 95% of the last century. What else is new?
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Kind of hard to put a dent in the SEC East’s reputation by beating Vandy or Kentucky. On the same day perennial SEC cellar dweller Vandy was beat by perennial old Big East / “The American” cellar dweller Temple, SEC-Eastern pre-season #12 Georgia beat ACC-Atlantic pre-season #16 Clemson, 45-21.
With Georgia and Clemson both being ranked, its the latter result that’s going to get wider coverage.
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Getting blown out by Temple always hurts, but I never claimed Vandy was vital to the East’s image. The West was already seen as so dominant over the East. Vandy showed the lack of depth in the East (they were decent under Franklin) and East favorite SC showed the top isn’t as strong as the experts thought.
UGA’s win helped, obviously, but it remains to be seen how Clemson will be viewed. Was that just Clemsoning at its best? Will know a lot more about the East in 2 weeks after UGA@SC.
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Actually that was a much closer game than the score. Georgia scored 3 TDS in 3 minutes in the middle of the 4th to break open a 3 point game that had been going back and forth.
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And two weeks later, SC, UGA, TN and Vandy all have a loss with UF vs UK in OT. That’ll make 4 teams with an SEC loss already in the East. MO hasn’t played anybody yet, but has SC and UGA in 2 and 3 weeks respectively. If MO doesn’t sweep those, the East won’t have an elite team to compare to the West’s champ.
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Fantastic article on Jerry Jones:
http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/11420510/dallas-cowboys-owner-jerry-jones-wants-known-football-man
Per the article, AT&T Stadium is virtually debt-free.
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The taxpayers of Arlington, TX still owe about a quarter-billion on the stadium. After PSLs, suite sales, and naming rights the Cowboys made a tidy profit on the full cost of the stadium. The $325M in taxpayer money and tax-free stadium status that saves $500M over 20 years are bonuses. That is why Forbes valued the team at $3B+ even though it has been almost 20 years since they won a Super Bowl. There was a good quote from Jimmy Johnson in the article about that: “What anniversary is this one?” Johnson asked, laughing. “They’re always having some kind of anniversaries down there. … I guess because they don’t go to Super Bowls anymore.”
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CFB’s 2014 all-name team:
http://athlonsports.com/college-football/college-footballs-2014-all-name-team
Some favorites:
Chris Blewitt, K, Pittsburgh
Dee Liner, DL, Alabama
Lion King, DL, Eastern Michigan
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B1G schools lead the way in paying opponents:
http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/106314/b1g-teams-lead-way-in-paying-opponents
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Interesting thesis on baseball’s decline
The main issue, though—and something that McGrath curiously doesn’t bring up—is probably just that baseball is now dealing with the consequences of having spent a solid decade telling anyone who would listen that baseball is awful and no one should watch it.
Let’s take a normal 25-year-old, born in 1989. He would have spent his formative years as a sports fan in the immediate aftermath of a canceled World Series, hearing that greedy players were destroying the game and that the dynastic Yankees team dominating the sport was such an affront to its competitive integrity that drastic measures had to be taken to give other teams any kind of chance at winning. He would have heard about the commissioner touring the country threatening to abolish various teams, some of them successful ones. He would have seen the league enthusiastically cooperating with a congressional investigation that all but treated many of its most famous players as criminals; the league touting an owner-written report claiming that those players were frauds, cheats, and liars; and the league and the government working together with small-time con men to destroy the very best of those players.
From the perspective of owners, all of this made sense. A majority of owners had an interest in (falsely) claiming that their teams just couldn’t compete, because they wanted to rig a system where they would be all but guaranteed profits.
[…]
http://deadspin.com/whats-wrong-with-baseball-1628473196
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The author might be over-thinking it. Other sports have had labor issues (NBA, NHL, almost NFL), messy off-field player situations (Kobe, Ray Lewis), dynasties (Kobe’s Lakers, Patriots), health issues with congressional hearings (concussions), and greedy owners.
Perhaps baseball, as a sport and game, is simply not as well suited for either TV or the modern, fast-paced, social-media, ADD culture as other sports (especially football) are? Perhaps the sheer number of games demands more daily attention than modern fans are prepared to devote?
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I heard on the radio (PBS, I think) that last year 29 of 30 teams average at tendency was more than the highest (or top three…something like that) during the Big Red Machine days. Baseball isn’t an easy comparison to NFL or NBA due to its much more regional nature, and that it isn’t in vogue right now.
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…attendance…
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ccrider,
I checked 1975 vs. 2013.
1975:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/1975-misc.shtml
Philly is 3rd at 23,571 per game.
2013:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/2013-misc.shtml
There are only eight teams that average less than that number. Nowadays they count tickets sold rather than turnstile count, but the numbers nowadays are much stronger than most people seem to think.
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Greg:
Thanks. Perhaps it was all but one are above the average of that time. There were several stats mentioned, and my little grey cells are getting both littler and greyer… But as you say the gist of the interview was that baseball is not hurting at all. They haven’t had the recent explosive growth/interest increase as the other two, but they have near a century headstart at regional identity. And I’m not sure more than a couple teams think that is limiting to any great extent. Broadcasters trying to market to the lowest common denominator do, but they aren’t the owners or the league.
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Has any sport (other than perhaps the moribund NHL-I don’t follow them enough to remember) had a championship cancelled? Has any sport had as much of the regular season disrupted? 1972, 1981, 1994 (maybe more). Has any other sport had its records questioned?
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Football and basketball records are not even able to be compared in many cases with far more changes in what constitutes a record. Baseball added eight games (5.2% increase) to the season and lowered the mound a bit.
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So…was Manzel the reason aTm was valuable last year? Is a Fr, in his first start erasing Mr. Autograph from records, now what provides them value? Or is it the team the school and coaches put on the field. This looks to me the perfect example of where the value lies. Next man up.
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Sumlin, please dont join Jerrah’s circus next year.
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I don’t think they will get anywhere close to last year’s TV ratings with an 8-4 record without JM. He was fun to watch and controversial. But he was an exception. Don’t think we’ve ever had more than 2 Heisman winners playing in a single season.
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For those of you who have wondered whether there really is an ongoing FBI investigation in the case …
https://twitter.com/Bagwell4Trustee/status/505387572584259584
Ryan Bagwell @Bagwell4Trustee
U.S. Attorney ordered to release records of Penn State investigation. Confirms FBI investigation ongoing. http://bit.ly/1nK4c06
12:12 PM – 29 Aug 2014
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What are they investigating? The 3 stooges of Penn St. or the 1000 stooges of the NCAA?
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> What are they investigating? The 3 stooges of Penn St. or the 1000 stooges of the NCAA?
Well, let’s think about this a minute. A convicted pedophile starts a children’s charity in 1977, but the first publicly known report of abuse is from 1998 — twenty-one years later. Pedophiles aren’t born in their mid 50’s. Now, is it more likely that the FBI is investigating allegations of victim payoffs, kickbacks, and money laundering through the charity going back to the 1970’s, or that they are investigating Area 51, the Illuminati, and the Bilderberg group? Oh, I almost forgot the aliens who abducted that missing DA.
So who’s the FBI investigating?
I’ve been told that conspiracy nuts are everywhere and that it keeps aluminum foil sales high. On the other hand, maybe this document from 2012 provides a little context:
http://www.psu.edu/ur/2012/openness/DOJ_subpoena.pdf
BTW, Gordon Zubrod is the guy who prosecuted Kids for Cash.(*)
Oh, come on, who am I trying to fool? The PSU BoT’s hand-picked investigator, who announced that he was going to investigate all the way back to 1975, has already exposed the whole sordid affair, and it started in 1998 — Joe Paterno’s vacated wins are proof of that — when the local DA decided not to prosecute after the state made successful prosecution impossible …
(*) Here’s what Zubrod said about Kids for Cash (thetimes-tribune.com/news/prosecutor-d-elia-s-downfall-kickstarted-kids-for-cash-probe-1.1107444):
Mr. Zubrod described the kids-for-cash case and related investigations that have led to more than 30 arrests as part of a decade-long process aimed at rooting out organized crime’s influence on public institutions in the U.S. Middle District, which covers 33 counties in Pennsylvania.
“It is one of a series that has been going on, a very intense series by the FBI and the IRS and our office from the late ’90s on to focus first of all on the connection between organized crime and public corruption, which is very real in this district, and then, secondly, step by step taking out each pocket where there is a power and people who think they can’t be touched,” Mr. Zubrod said.
“This is now the third judge that’s been prosecuted in this case. The idea as some said during trial that these people are powerful and can’t be touched, I hope that’s been broken. But the circle is much wider than that and we have to keep going at it.”
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16 (almost) straight hours of Big ten football tomorrow! Pretty good games too (PSU-UCF, OSU-Navy, NU-Cal, Wisconsin-LSU).
Wooooooo!
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How’d that work out for you?
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50-50.
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http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/the-9-biggest-media-questions-for-the-college-football-season.html
9 big media question for 2014.
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http://awfulannouncing.com/2014/fueling-the-toxicity-of-college-football-fandom-is-a-science.html
The toxicity in CFB.
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I think its more a reflection of our society at large and media’s desire to be controversial in order to get attention, coupled with the idiots that ESPN hires. Don’t think there is any conspiracy.
Rivalries and “hate” don’t have to be toxic. When its left on the ball field its fine.
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I don’t buy it.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/08/140828184733.htm
I’m going to spend as much time as needed with my phone searching for a study to prove the opposite…
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That one took a while to sink in, but finally I got it.
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The AP and Coaches’ polls are out.
http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=209630808
AP by conference
SEC (8): #2 Bama, #5 Auburn, #6 Georgia, #9 A&M, #12 LSU, #15 Ole Miss, #21 South Carolina, and #24 Mizzou
Pac-12 (5): #3 Oregon, #11 UCLA, #13 Stanford, #14 USC, and #17 Arizona St
ACC (4): #1 Florida St, #21 North Carolina, #23 Clemson, and #25 Louisville
B1G (4): #7 Michigan St, #8 Ohio St, #18 Wisconsin, and #19 Nebraska
Big XII (3): #4 Oklahoma, #10 Baylor, and #21 K-State
Ind: #16 Notre Dame
Coaches’ by conference
SEC (8): #2 Bama, #5 Auburn, #8 Georgia, #12 LSU, #13 A&M, #17 Ole Miss, #21 South Carolina, and #22 Mizzou
Pac-12 (5): #4 Oregon, #10 Stanford, #11 UCLA, #14 USC, and #16 Arizona St
Big XII (4): #3 Oklahoma, #9 Baylor, #20 K-State, and #25 Texas
B1G (4): #6 Michigan St, #7 Ohio St, #18 Nebraska, and #19 Wisconsin
ACC (3): #1 Florida State, #23 North Carolina, and #24 Clemson
Ind: #15 Notre Dame
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Love this ‘Game of Thrones’ BTN mash up.
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Giants messing with the space/time continuum.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/the-curious-case-of-giants-rookie-andrew-susac-s–first–mlb-hit-074311960.html
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http://conferenceexpansion.com/
Couldn’t help but share this.
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Missouri to the BIG is dead. It didn’t happen when they were available and it definitely won’t be happening now.
Consequently, here is another big reason Rutgers and Maryland were added to the Big 10:
http://247wallst.com/special-report/2013/09/19/americas-richest-and-poorest-states/2/
Maryland is the richest state in the US and New Jersey is the 2nd richest state. I am sure each and every Big 10 school would love to add students for both those states at out-of-state tuition costs. I wonder if there was a way to track the impact of conference affiliation and the number of out of state students to other conference schools. An example would be did the number of Pennsylvania residents to Big 10 schools increase when PSU joined the conference? Did the BTN have any effect due to increase exposure? That would be interesting to see.
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Also noteworthy is that Florida and Georgia are NOT amongst the 10 poorest states. SC and Tennessee, despite this ranking, have pretty good pockets of wealth in them (coastal areas, Nashville, Oak Ridge-Knoxville). Notice how several SEC West states are in the bottom 10 also. Damn right Missouri is not going anywhere, not even changing divisions.
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Hilarious that West Virginia fans are still spinning conspiracy theories that puts Mizzou in the B1G and WVU in the SEC. Not happening.
I can see how a lot of people want it though. In retrospect I think most would agree that the B1G should have added Mizzou and kansas along with Nebraska to go to 14, and then expanded eastward later if they felt like it. Too late now though.
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“Hilarious that West Virginia fans are still spinning conspiracy theories that puts Mizzou in the B1G and WVU in the SEC. Not happening.”
Now now, its not like there is much else to do in West Virginia, outside of singing “Take Me Home Country Roads”.
“In retrospect I think most would agree that the B1G should have added Mizzou and kansas along with Nebraska to go to 14, and then expanded eastward later if they felt like it. ”
A big unknown. Benefits and negatives to both. Negatives: Mizzou & KU would do comparatively less for the BTN and national TV deal than RU & UMD. RU & UMD a better academic combo than MU/KU. Positives: Mizzou better in football than either RU or UMD, KU a triple-major/elite basketball brand. Would have meant better raw content for TV. Is quality of content better than quantity of content, or to markets now reign supreme (trumped only by elite-level brands).
Presented with these options, do the presidents opt for more money or for better content with far less market expansion?
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The money, political power structure, and the home of the major media companies reside on the east coast. Moving into Maryland and New Jersey was a no-brainer compared to more Midwestern schools if you are taking a broad outlook of conferences outside of the normal sports realm.
The competition in higher education will only increase in future. Tuition is rising to the point of being prohibitive and will make the competition for wealthy qualified students greater in the future. The federal budget is so far out of whack that federal research grants will be even harder to get. Yes Maryland and Rutgers suck at sports but Maryland and New Jersey residents have a ton of money and the states a ton of political power. Having access and exposure to such things is huge for the BIG going forward.
Last conference realignment isn’t finished. It may be dormant until the GORs come up but more consolidation is inevitable IMO. Who knows what the BIG will look like in the end. Missouri and Kansas look like nice adds but compared to Texas and OU or UVA and UNC, they would be a wasted spots.
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I guess that depends on how “most” is defined. It may mean “most” Missouri fans. It certainly means “most” of the people on this board named “Andy”. I do not know if it includes “most” B1G fans, but certainly might. It definitely does not include “most” of the people who count, the presidents of the B1G schools.
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How about most Big Ten fans who care about sports. Which I’m guessing is most Big Ten fans. Sure the wonks on here are more concerned about academics and conference network subscription rolls. But the danger is if the B1G is seen as a crappy league then the whole thing falls apart.
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Good point, Andy. The B1G is about to collapse and disband. Maybe Missouri will join and save everything.
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Interesting article from the Oklahoma newspaper columnist. Not the first article written questioning the LHN as being good for the overall health of the B12. Expansion link above is even more critical of the LHN. Questions in my mind are two fold. If the LHN continues to lose money for ESPN, how long before ESPN buys out the contract. If LHN contract bought out by ESPN, would the B12 explore a conference network? How many B12 teams constitute a conference. In other words, if Kansas sought the B1G and was accepted and UT, OU, TT and OSU sought the PAC and were accepted, would the remaining five members have a law suit for the GOR? And the BTN is accused of televising “rumdum” games. LOL
The SEC Network is televising some of the conference’s best games, notably the Texas A&M-South Carolina opener last Thursday and Arkansas-Auburn on Saturday. The Big Ten Network will reap the conference schools a combined $3 billion over 25 years while it promotes the conference 24/7/365. The Pac-12 Network, despite distribution problems, is part of the most lucrative media contract in the nation.
The Big 12 could have been out in front of the conference television idea. Weiberg heavily promoted it. Tried to sell it. He was consistently rebuffed.
“I don’t know that we ever put it to a formal vote,” Weiberg said. “But it was obvious you couldn’t get there.” Conference bylaws required nine votes. But there were never more than eight in agreement, and even Kansas, wondering how it would affect its hoops, had serious questions.
“Hard to find that super majority consensus around it,” Weiberg said.
And now conference networks are all the rage, with the ACC considering joining the club. Meanwhile, Texas and its Longhorn Network contract safely keep the Big 12 from considering a conference channel for 17 more years.
Weiberg resigned from the Pac-12 earlier this year and moved back to his native Kansas, in the Wichita area, for family reasons. He’s consulting, still helping the Pac-12 and working on a University of Oregon project. He knows more about conference television networks than any man in America.
“I think they have been successful, by and large,” Weiberg said. “They’ve been sources of revenue for the schools, but they’ve also been great exposure vehicles. Lot of games don’t get on. Especially for the Olympic sports. Great to have an ongoing, year-round conversation about intercollegiate athletics and the conference.”
The conference networks can come in many shapes. Fox Sports owns 51 percent of the Big Ten Network. ESPN is a partner with the SEC, as it is with The Longhorn Network. The Big Ten televises mostly rumdum football games. The Pac-12 offers some decent games. The SEC puts on showdowns, complete with Brent Musburger calling the action.
Who knows what a Big 12 Network would have looked like? It was not an original idea, Weiberg said. He knew the Big Ten was considering a network. He knew media companies had inquired with the Big 12 about a possible startup.
Instead, we have BevoTV and no A&M. We have pay-per-view and no Nebraska. We have West Virginia and no Missouri.
“I’m disappointed there have been membership changes, having worked in the conference nine years,” Weiberg said.
He takes the high road. “I think the conference came out of it in good shape,” Weiberg said. “Bob Bowlsby is an outstanding commissioner and will do an outstanding job going forward. It’s hard to predict the future, from legal challenges to just the whole nature of the way the structure is put together.
“Challenges cause some institutions to question and engage, which could lead to more change. I think the Big 12 has come through it in a good spot. Has a chance for a bright future.”
A chance. That’s where the Big 12 is. It has a chance. The other leagues have a certainty. We should have listened to Weiberg.
Berry Tramel: Berry can be reached at (405) 760-8080 or at btramel@opubco.com. He can be heard Monday through Friday from 4:40-5:20 p.m. on The Sports Animal radio network, including FM-98.1. You can also view his personality page at newsok.com/berrytramel.
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“How many B12 teams constitute a conference. In other words, if Kansas sought the B1G and was accepted and UT, OU, TT and OSU sought the PAC and were accepted, would the remaining five members have a law suit for the GOR?”
Perhaps it would require the reshuffling of both the B12 and ACC to sort out the mess. Let’s say the Big Ten take in Virginia and Kansas and the SEC take in UNC and Duke. The ACC then becomes the “best of the rest” Power 4 conference, with FSU, VT, Clemson, Louisville, Syracuse and adding West Virginia, TCU, Baylor, Iowa State and Kansas State. Losing the Heels and Blue Devils would be tough but the others would have no other place to go. The ACC would have a foothold in the state of Texas, reunite the two backyard brawls (not to mention geographic contiguity on the Eastern seaboard), plus some of the Chicago and Kansas City markets with ISU and KSU, respectively. It would be a conference much more inclined towards football than the current ACC is today.
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swesleyh,
“If the LHN continues to lose money for ESPN, how long before ESPN buys out the contract.”
Why buy out of it when they can amortize the loss? Besides, UT has zero incentive to let ESPN buy their way out. If things go too poorly for them, there’s probably a clause in the deal they can use.
“If LHN contract bought out by ESPN, would the B12 explore a conference network?”
You’d think so, but maybe not. OU and KU and some others are making decent money on tier 3 right now. Would they make more by having KSU, OkSU and ISU involved and sharing equally?
“How many B12 teams constitute a conference. In other words, if Kansas sought the B1G and was accepted and UT, OU, TT and OSU sought the PAC and were accepted, would the remaining five members have a law suit for the GOR?”
I’m guessing that the answer is that only 1 school has to stay to collect on the GoR. The other 9 could vote to disband the conference, but I’m betting the GoR has some language preventing that as a way to avoid the penalty. That 1 remaining school would have the rights to home games from all 10 schools.
“The SEC Network is televising some of the conference’s best games, notably the Texas A&M-South Carolina opener last Thursday and Arkansas-Auburn on Saturday.”
That was week 1, partially/largely as a way to pressure companies to carry the SECN from the start. Not every week is like that. Look at this week:
12:00 – FAU @ AL (extra channel = Ark. State @ TN)
3:30 – EMU @ UF (extra channel = Nicholls @ Ark)
7:30 – Sam Houston St @ LSU (extra channel = Lamar @ TAMU)
Here is CFN’s pre-season guess of the best games in the SEC that week:
http://cfn.scout.com/2/1402842.html
1. Ole Miss at Vanderbilt
2. East Carolina at South Carolina
3. Missouri at Toledo
4. Arkansas State at Tennessee
5. San Jose State at Auburn
6. Ohio at Kentucky
7. UAB at Mississippi State
8. Florida Atlantic at Alabama
9. Eastern Michigan at Florida
10. Lamar at Texas A&M
11. Sam Houston State at LSU
12. Nicholls State at Arkansas
That’s the 5 worst games, plus #4 on an overflow channel.
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“I’m guessing that the answer is that only 1 school has to stay to collect on the GoR. The other 9 could vote to disband the conference, but I’m betting the GoR has some language preventing that as a way to avoid the penalty. That 1 remaining school would have the rights to home games from all 10 schools.”
Doubt UT, OU, etc would have signed a GOR that gave essentially veto power to any single school. It may be greater than a majority, but I doubt unanimity is required. Remember, it was the others trying to get UT on board and I doubt they drove the hardest bargain possible
I’d think the remaining schools would have to quickly reconstitute enough numbers to qualify as a conference under NCAA rules. And they would need to be able to fulfill the obligations of their media contract. Difficult to do if leaving teams new schedules take no account of how time, date and location effect B12 media obligations.
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Why not? Have you considered that they all intend to be bound for the life of the TV contract?
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I agree. I was only saying that it would be unlikely for them (UT) to have handcuffed themselves in the event that all but one (any one) was in agreement to disolve the conference. I wouldn’t expect anything to bubble up until official talk of renewing the GOR begins, if even then. ESPN’s LHN deal runs past the B12 GOR.
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ccrider55,
“Doubt UT, OU, etc would have signed a GOR that gave essentially veto power to any single school. It may be greater than a majority, but I doubt unanimity is required.”
I said it was a guess. Feel free to disagree. I think the little guys demanded security. If it isn’t literally written in the GoR, then they have to have it via a lawsuit for tortious interference. The big boys can probably buy them off, but I think the little guys made sure they were protected for the duration of the GoR knowing that the B12 may crumble then if things don’t change.
“Remember, it was the others trying to get UT on board and I doubt they drove the hardest bargain possible”
While I think they had to drive the hardest bargain possible. After all, even OU wanted to have UT locked in.
“I’d think the remaining schools would have to quickly reconstitute enough numbers to qualify as a conference under NCAA rules.”
I think the GoR covers them even if they don’t reform. They would have to get back to 6 to compete as a conference, though.
“And they would need to be able to fulfill the obligations of their media contract. Difficult to do if leaving teams new schedules take no account of how time, date and location effect B12 media obligations.”
The TV deal would die to membership changes if UT and OU both left. That’s why the remainder would sue for tortious interference as their TV deal suddenly lost all value.
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“While I think they had to drive the hardest bargain possible. After all, even OU wanted to have UT locked in.”
So…the strategy to entice a reluctant commitment is to offer/insist on the strictest terms possible? As you say I don’t know. But I’d be more interested in what conference dissolution required. The conference is the holder of the rights and I can see UT granting them in support of their serfs, err, the B12.
“I think the GoR covers them even if they don’t reform. They would have to get back to 6 to compete as a conference, though.”
Doesn’t the GOR grant the rights to the conference? If it no longer exists how can the rights be delivered?
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ccrider55,
“So…the strategy to entice a reluctant commitment is to offer/insist on the strictest terms possible?”
I think this might be a semantics problem. The hardest bargain possible might not be very strict if UT was really reluctant. I’m saying they little guys got all they could in the deal, much like the ACC did with ND (eventually got 5 games when ND wanted 3). What we don’t know is how strict those terms are. I gave my guess and you gave yours. We may find out in 10+ years.
“But I’d be more interested in what conference dissolution required.”
I would too, but the usual rule is a supermajority of some sort. It’s more than 5 and less than 11. I doubt they agreed to 60%, so I’d guess they went with at least 75% or 8 teams. Whether it’s 8 or 9 doesn’t really matter since Baylor, TCU, ISU and KSU have no place to go. I don’t think WV has a home outside the AAC either, but maybe they could be a #16 somewhere. TT and OkSU might get to follow their big brothers.
Basically, UT, OU and KU are the only ones other conferences might want. A couple more might find good homes, but only as a tag-along or complementary school. I don’t see how critical mass would be reached for going elsewhere when the little guys benefit more by staying put and collecting the money the schools that leave would owe them.
“Doesn’t the GOR grant the rights to the conference? If it no longer exists how can the rights be delivered?”
The NCAA won’t recognize a conference of less than 6 teams. That’s not the same as it not existing.
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In the age of conference networks there is no way schools like Oklahoma are going to allow themselves to get left behind for twenty years. They’ll be gone, GOR be damned, within five years if no B12 network comes to fruition (it wont). The question is, will Bowlsby take the reigns of the Big Ten or SEC when Delany and Slive retire. He has B1G history, so I’m guessing there.
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At this point I see the main function of the Longhorn Network as a tool for ESPN to control Texas’ future and, therefore, how the final conference reshuffling shakes out.
If, as expected, the last big reshuffling would result in the ACC or the B12 going away, ESPN is going to make sure the survivor is the ACC (which is completely tied to ESPN) as opposed to the B12 (where they control less than 1/2 of the content).
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And in that ACC-as-survivor scenario, what becomes of Notre Dame?
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There is no reason that things couldn’t end up with ND in the same hybrid situation they are now. Maybe things end up with both Texas and ND being hybrid members of the ACC.
However, if the Big12 did go away, it would remove the only other viable conference option for ND to have a hybrid arrangement. Would the ACC then put pressure on them to join fully, knowing that ND’s only options are full membership in a p5 conference or going fully independent in football again (with a major downgrade in the possible home for their non-football sports)?
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I have seen Texas to the ACC in a deal like ND mentioned often but I don’t see it.
One, Texas is very different than the majority of ACC schools. Texas is a large state flagship institution where as most ACC schools are smaller private schools. Notre Dame fits in line with that group more so than Texas.
Two, letting another school in as a partial member could upset other members. Its one thing to allow Notre Dame a sweetheart deal but Texas doesn’t have the same cache. How would UNC feel about another program getting all the benefits of membership without sharing any of their resources.
Third, I don’t think the ACC is on death’s door anymore where they have to make exceptions for specific schools. As much as realignment has been about football, the ACC is not a football driven conference. I think most of their schools are content with being lousy so they won’t have to keep up with the arms race in the most expensive college sport. Unless the weight of fully funded scholarships for all sports bankrupts their athletic programs, like Maryland, I don’t see them chasing the dollars.
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Psuhockey,
“I have seen Texas to the ACC in a deal like ND mentioned often but I don’t see it.”
It seems like a reach to me, too, but UT would add a huge market for the ACCN (assuming there is one and the LHN gets folded in or both exist) and some football oomph. It also gives UT a solid home for hoops, baseball, etc.
“One, Texas is very different than the majority of ACC schools. Texas is a large state flagship institution where as most ACC schools are smaller private schools. Notre Dame fits in line with that group more so than Texas.”
The ACC has a bit of everything. Small and private (WF, Duke), medium and private (Syracuse, Miami, BC), medium and public (UL, UVA, Clemson, GT), medium-large and semi-private (Pitt), medium-large and public (UNC) and large and public (VT, NCSU, FSU). It has state flagships and non-flagships. It has elite academic schools and weak ones. ND matches the ACC profile, but UT would, too.
“Two, letting another school in as a partial member could upset other members.”
Very true. On the other hand, they might welcome the money and the big football games. That would be 10 games per year for the ACC, so each team would see both UT and ND in 3 years.
“Its one thing to allow Notre Dame a sweetheart deal but Texas doesn’t have the same cache.”
Not the same, no, but UT has a lot of cache.
“How would UNC feel about another program getting all the benefits of membership without sharing any of their resources.”
Unknown. But maybe they prefer that option to losing more ACC schools to the B10 or SEC. The status quo may not be an option.
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Bowlsby is no spring chicken. Will be interesting to see the landscape in 5 years or so when we likely will have new leadership at the SEC, B12 and B1G. Probably the ACC as well. Not sure Delany wants to be commish in his mid 70’s like Slive.
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He’s 62. Slive, Delany and Swofford are old and probably won’t be commissioners in 5 years.
It will be Scott, Bowlsby and the 3 new commissioners who will be driving decisions about the playoffs and any expansions.
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In the age of conference networks there is no way schools like Oklahoma are going to allow themselves to get left behind for twenty years.
Left behind? They already make notably more than the ACC and a bit more than the PAC (and more than just a “bit” when you consider they have lower travel costs than any of the PAC teams).
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On his radio show last night, Kirk Ferentz again said that he thought the B1G would be going to a 10 game schedule. Given that he normally brags about his ignorance on such things, its surprising he has mentioned it twice.
Not much in this link but speculation. It mentions the bidding war required on buy games, but a 10 game schedule doesn’t get rid of buy games, it gets rid of OOC HaH.
http://thegazette.com/subject/sports/3-and-out-20140904
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Not necessarily in Iowa’s case. Failure to play the Cy-Hawk would create significant political issues for Iowa from ISU alumni & fans in the Legislature.
But then again, I’m of the personal belief that a 13 game regular season is on the horizon
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Perhaps IA is quietly pushing for the move to 10 games so they can drop ISU?
I still think people overplay the 5/4 split issue. As long as the whole division faces the same split, there is no real disadvantage. Teams are going to play a 5th road game anyway, all this does is keep them in conference half of the time.
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I agree, the 5/4 split is a non-issue. I just don’t see a 10th came in the cards. It will almost completely eliminate home and homes with quality opponents. Perhaps it would even eliminate neutral site games for schools with huge stadiums.
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I agree. Unless a 13th game is added to the season, 10 conference games seems too many to me.
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I thought the 5/4 split was as much, if not more, about getting to 7 home games, which is much trickier to do when having to schedule 3 ooc home games in a year, than it is about intra-conference competitive balance. 7 home games pays (or 6 and very lucrative neutral-site game) helps fund the athletic budgets. And schools like Iowa are not going to be in the same demand as a King program for the lucrative neutral-site games, and don’t have a sexy venue nearby to compensate for that (like Wisconsin with Lambeau)–absent, of course, setting up bleachers at the Field of Dreams for football.
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See: http://www.bcinterruption.com/2013/1/29/3927200/big-ten-expansion-football-10-game-conference-football-schedule
“Everybody has their own perspective and set of issues,” Brandon told The Detroit News on Monday. “From Michigan’s perspective, I go into those meetings with one strong, very strong belief that we need to play a minimum of seven home games a year. Whatever structure we come up with has to result in seven home games. If not, that’s a huge negative to me.”
“Most of us need seven home games in order to make our local budgets,” Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said. “Is there a way to overcome that? I don’t know. We’ll have to look at that. The conference is aware that it’s an issue.”
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Wainscott,
“I thought the 5/4 split was as much, if not more, about getting to 7 home games, which is much trickier to do when having to schedule 3 ooc home games in a year, than it is about intra-conference competitive balance.”
I don’t see the problem.
1. You schedule home and home series to complement your conference schedule and get to a 5/5 split.
2. You buy 2 games from weaker I-A teams.
“And schools like Iowa are not going to be in the same demand as a King program for the lucrative neutral-site games,”
The Atlanta games aren’t all about kings. UNC, NCSU, WV, Boise, VT and Ole Miss have all been in those games, and UL and GT will be.
IA would be a strong choice if there was a midwestern game (Chicago, St. L, KC, MSP, etc).
“and don’t have a sexy venue nearby to compensate for that (like Wisconsin with Lambeau)”
Not as close, no, but those cities I listed aren’t that far away. IA fans would fill any of them.
I think a B10/B12 kickoff game in KC or St. L every year would do pretty well. So would B10/ACC in DC. No midwestern city has stepped up to run such a game, though.
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Oh, wait. I think you meant the 5/4 was done to allow for 7 home games in stead of having 10 games. I was talking about people complaining about it (in the linked article, the author complains about it) and seeing 10 games as an answer to the problem.
You can schedule either way and still get 7 homes games. With 9 you also get a home and home OOC. With 10, you just buy two OOC home games or play 1 neutral site game every year.
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“Oh, wait. I think you meant the 5/4 was done to allow for 7 home games in stead of having 10 games.”
I was talking about the complaints and issues in going to 10 games while maintaining 7 home games. I don’t think going to 10 helps that goal of 7 home games at all absent a related increase to a 13 game regular season, esp with strength of schedule considerations.
Indeed, going to 9 has created those issues on a smaller scale, as in years schools have 4 conference home games, they’ll have to juggle schedules to get to 7 home games. Indeed, OSU in 2017 have only 6 home games, a fact Gene Smith had to accept as its the first 9 conference game slate due to existing contracts with OOC schools. Its something he said OSU could handle if its infrequent. But juggling those scheduling issues is very difficult in practice.
” With 10, you just buy two OOC home games or play 1 neutral site game every year.”
Its not that easy in practice. B1G no longer scheduling FCS schools. Finite amount of non-P5 schools out there that will be in higher demand, making it more expensive to purchase games. If other conferences also go to 10, with 12 game regular season, makes it far easier said than done.
Very, very hard to have a non-H2H with another P5 school outside of a neutral-site game.
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Wainscott,
“Indeed, OSU in 2017 have only 6 home games, a fact Gene Smith had to accept as its the first 9 conference game slate due to existing contracts with OOC schools. Its something he said OSU could handle if its infrequent. But juggling those scheduling issues is very difficult in practice.”
Actually, OSU fixed that by dropping the series with UNC about 3 weeks ago and adding UNLV at home in 2017 instead. Now that problem won’t rear it’s head until 2023 since Smith just added @ND that year as part of the stupid new series with ND.
“Its not that easy in practice.”
Isn’t it?
“B1G no longer scheduling FCS schools. Finite amount of non-P5 schools out there that will be in higher demand, making it more expensive to purchase games.”
Yes, it costs more now. But they are about to make a huge jump in TV money so they can afford it.
“If other conferences also go to 10, with 12 game regular season, makes it far easier said than done.”
I doubt the MAC, SB, etc will go to 10 any time soon since they can make so much on selling a game or two.
“Very, very hard to have a non-H2H with another P5 school outside of a neutral-site game.”
Even the home and home would die for many schools. It’s why I really don’t want 10 game schedules.
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Brian: “I doubt the MAC, SB, etc will go to 10 any time soon since they can make so much on selling a game or two.”
Quite true. Looking at the schedule for Kent State … OSU AND Virginia? What’s going on there?
“The biggest transformation will be moving the softball diamond from the Dix Stadium Complex to the area behind left field at Schoonover Stadium. The 400-seat stadium will feature a dedicated entrance plaza and ticket booth. The project also includes an indoor training facility that will be utilized year round by both teams and features a softball clubhouse containing a locker room, showers, team meeting area and team lounge.”
http://ksubuildingchampions.com/schoonover-complex/
… ah, yes, so there’s a reason for that.
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http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090414aab.html
No mention of the OSU-ND series in 8yrs?
I’d think it indicates Ohio State isn’t thinking a ten game conference slate is coming.
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This is the first I’ve heard of it.
It’s in 2023, paired with OSU/UT so OSU is at one and hosting the other.
My initial thoughts:
1. It’s a terrible, horrible, incredibly bad idea and Gene Smith should be fired for doing it. It’s bad enough ND weaseled out of their B10 rivalries. Now OSU is rubbing it in by taking up 2 games that MI or MSU or PU could have? It’s not like OSU and ND have significant history.
2. It’s even worse to do it the same years as the UT series. OSU will be playing at least 4 kings those 2 years, (MI, PSU, UT, ND) and probably a 5th (NE). That’s a schedule destined to ruin a season.
3. I hope this is one of those series that gets cancelled long before it is supposed to happen.
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Thoughts:
1. I don’t have a problem at all with the two playing and like it (although not the timing). Notre Dame was clearly looking for a big name opponent there and it’s likely either Michigan wasn’t available (likely for reasons listed below) or didn’t want it. Similarly, if they scheduled Ohio State, it’s quite possible that they wouldn’t have been looking for a game with Michigan State or Purdue (king status in all). Beyond all that, no reason to hold grudges on any of this. Notre Dame has never been a Big Ten member and is free to schedule as they wish.
2. The game @ Notre Dame in 2023 (likely a necessity for the Irish) means that Ohio State (or any Big Ten East team who ended up playing them), is only going to have 6 home games. In odd years in the 9 conference game schedule, east teams have 4 conference home games and 5 road games. Add in a non-conference road game and that makes it 6 road games. I’m fairly stunned Ohio State agreed to that given they just cancelled the series with North Carolina for that reason. My guess is that for a few special occasions they’ll do it, but I also wouldn’t be stunned to see the Boston College series dropped and 8 home games the following year or if the Texas series is moved and there are 8 home games in 2022.
3. The 2023 schedule is murders row. There are 5 road Big Ten games and the out of conference schedule is currently vs. Boston College, vs. Texas, @Notre Dame. That’s all power 5 conference teams.
4. Either we see changes in the schedule or Ohio State really thinks strength of schedule will be heavily used by the committee. I think the committee will try, but still not use it like they could so this probably doesn’t help national title hopes.
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Eric,
“1. I don’t have a problem at all with the two playing and like it (although not the timing).”
The timing (as you address in more detail below) is clearly the worst part of this.
“Beyond all that, no reason to hold grudges on any of this. Notre Dame has never been a Big Ten member and is free to schedule as they wish.”
No, but OSU is a B10 member and I think it makes us look like a bad citizen when we play ND while watching others lose their rivalry with ND.
“2. The game @ Notre Dame in 2023 (likely a necessity for the Irish) means that Ohio State (or any Big Ten East team who ended up playing them), is only going to have 6 home games. … I’m fairly stunned Ohio State agreed to that given they just cancelled the series with North Carolina for that reason. My guess is that for a few special occasions they’ll do it, but I also wouldn’t be stunned to see the Boston College series dropped and 8 home games the following year or if the Texas series is moved and there are 8 home games in 2022.”
I’m hoping something changes. Dropping to 6 home games just to play ND is a bad business decision.
“3. The 2023 schedule is murders row. There are 5 road Big Ten games and the out of conference schedule is currently vs. Boston College, vs. Texas, @Notre Dame. That’s all power 5 conference teams.”
It’s a good way to not make the playoff due to losing multiple games.
“4. Either we see changes in the schedule or Ohio State really thinks strength of schedule will be heavily used by the committee. I think the committee will try, but still not use it like they could so this probably doesn’t help national title hopes.”
OSU has no basis to think the committee would use SOS that strongly.
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Thoughts:
1. Shortly after the Michigan-Notre Dame series was cancelled in 2012, UM announced it was going to have a home-and-home with Virginia Tech during the 2020/1 seasons. Within the last few weeks, UM Athletic Director David Brandon announced a second home-and-home series with a Power 5 Conference opponent for those two years with the Washington Huskies. See http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/big-ten/michigan-wolverines.php
If the current schedule rotation for the Big Ten holds and Nebraska replaces Wisconsin as UM’s annual Western Division opponent after 2019, then this is what Michigan’s schedule will probably look like in 2020 and 2021
2020 (7 Home / 5 Road)
9/5 – at Washington
9/12 – Ball State
9/19 – Virginia Tech
Eastern Division Home Opponents: Penn State, Maryland, Indiana
Eastern Division Road Opponents: at Ohio State, at Michigan State, at Rutgers
Western Division Home Opponents: Nebraska and one TBD (Purdue? See below)
Western Division Road Opponents: at one TBD (at Minnesota? See below)
2021 (6 Home / 6 Road)
9/4 – Home TBD
9/11 – at Virginia Tech
9/18 – Washington
Eastern Division Home Opponents: Ohio State, Michigan State, Rutgers
Eastern Division Road Opponents: at Penn State, at Maryland, at Indiana
Western Division Home Opponents: one TBD (Northwestern? See below)
Western Division Road Opponents: at Nebraska and at one TBD (at Wisconsin? See below)
From 2016 to 2019 (when the Big Ten first starts its nine-game conference schedule), Michigan plays Wisconsin plus the following two other Western Division teams:
2016 – Illinois, at Iowa
2017 – at Purdue, Minnesota
2018 – Nebraska, at Northwestern
2019 – at Illinois, Iowa
If that schedule rotation holds (and assuming Nebraska replaces Wisconsin as the annual Western Division opponent for the 2020 thru 2023 seasons), then the Western TBD teams in 2020 would be Purdue and at Minnesota and the 2021 programs would be Northwestern and at Wisconsin.
2. Why would Michigan want to have two Power 5 teams on its future non-conference schedule? Why would UM be willing to play just six home games in 2021? Will Michigan do this in other years?
My best assessment on the situation is that on reason Michigan wants to bolster its home schedule in order to make the season tickets more valuable to the customers. UM has already started going away from playing MAC teams after this season with the exception of the Ball State game in 2020 (Brady Hoke’s alma mater and his first head coaching job). Michigan is instead scheduling teams from the Mountain West (Air Force, UNLV, Hawaii) and American Athletic (Cincinnati, USF, SMU). The public and student ticket prices are on the higher level of the spectrum for college games and because of the realignment and expansion of the conference, games with Michigan State and Iowa that were supposed to be played in Ann Arbor in 2014 were (1) played in East Lansing two years in a few and (2) replaced with another team. That means ticket demand has been particularly soft this season (which is also due to a negative reaction from students over their new ticket policy plus the 7-6 season last year).
The other reason I suspect that is happening is that the television networks want to see more interesting match ups to broadcast. We all know that the Big Ten is going into its football and men’s basketball rights negotiations in the fall of 2015, and if the conference can show a future schedule of more challenging non-conference games, the more attractive the package. Also, if Michigan and Ohio State are willing to give up a home game every other year, it may indicate that the television package is likely going to be very lucrative and that the two schools’ AD’s may be willing to give up that game revenue in return for a more robust non-conference schedule.
Finally, of course, there’s the strength of schedule component involved in the four-game playoff. Playing two Power 5 Conference teams in the non-conference portion plus the Big Ten schedule and a conference championship game should be enough in most cases to satisfy the playoff committee members IRT SOS if Michigan were being considered.
We’ll see what happens in the future. David Brandon did indicate a few weeks ago that there was a second announcement due for a home-and-home series in the coming years. Michigan will be playing Arkansas (2018/9), UCLA (2022/3) and Oklahoma (2025/6) and Brandon recently said there are contracts and verbal agreements in place through 2027 (see link below). So will Michigan have a second Power 5 Conference team in those years or will he have a team lined up to play a home and home for 2024/7? We’ll find out.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140904/SPORTS0201/309040127/0/sports0201/Michigan-s-Dave-Brandon-We-ll-miss-Notre-Dame-game-neither-team-needs-other-
As far as the Ohio State-Notre Dame home-and-home is concerned, I could make a joke about the Buckeyes dating the Wolverines’ former psycho girl friend, but that really wouldn’t be relevant. The two teams have played before, they’re nationally known and there’s really no reason why they shouldn’t play one another. Since Notre Dame became a semi-independent with the agreements to play 5 ACC teams, Navy, USC and Stanford annually, they’re certainly looking for one major home-and-home opponent per year among the four they do have to schedule and the Buckeyes certainly fit the bill. On a related note, Notre Dame may be looking at moving its two games with Texas in 2019/20 because the Irish also have a game with Georgai in 2019–see http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/06/notre-dame-wants-to-postpone-2019-20-texas-games/
Since ND is tied up contractually with the ACC through the last 2020s, it pretty much means there’s no present option for them to join the Big Ten in the near future either, so the conference doesn’t have to maintain any real relationship with Notre Dame by scheduling multiple B1G teams with them each year. That’s not to say having ND plus one other program wouldn’t be great additions at #15 and #16, but that’s not a likely scenario in the near term at this point.
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@Brian Honestly, I don’t understand the fascination with winning games if it’s against Fargo Tech or the like.
Give me Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and a couple good P5 opponents every year and I’d be a happy Buckeye. That still leaves 5 games that should be wins on talent disparity alone.
Playoff contending teams shouldn’t be aspiring to only playing one or two teams with a pulse each season. If you look around the country, more teams are beefing up their OOC SOS. Gene Smith is doing his job at giving OSU some marquee opponents if the B1G can’t get its shit together (outside of Michigan State currently).
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Blapples,
“Honestly, I don’t understand the fascination with winning games if it’s against Fargo Tech or the like.”
Winning is more fun than losing. Winning sells more tickets. Winning gets you a better postseason. Winning helps recruiting. Winning increases donations.
And there is some slight chance there are teams between the level of the kings and Fargo Tech.
“Give me Michigan, Penn State, Michigan State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, and a couple good P5 opponents every year and I’d be a happy Buckeye. That still leaves 5 games that should be wins on talent disparity alone.”
9-3 every year gets OSU coaches fired. That sort of schedule will lead to a lot of 9-3 seasons (some better, some worse). You may be happy, but a whole lot of other Buckeyes wouldn’t be.
“Playoff contending teams shouldn’t be aspiring to only playing one or two teams with a pulse each season.”
And there couldn’t possibly be a middle ground between “one or two teams with a pulse” and MI, PSU, NE, WI, MSU, ND and UT in one season?
“If you look around the country, more teams are beefing up their OOC SOS.”
How many are scheduling UT and ND (or equivalent king programs) in the same year OOC?
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“Winning is more fun than losing. Winning sells more tickets. Winning gets you a better postseason. Winning helps recruiting. Winning increases donations.”
Watching a high profile game between top 10 opponents is more fun than beating a team you’re favored by 20 over. High profile games sell more tickets and get better ratings among TV viewers. Beating a tougher SOS gets you a better postseason. Playing tougher competition shows your donors where you stand in the CFB arms race and donations will increase if you’re not up to snuff.
“9-3 every year gets OSU coaches fired.”
And? Are you the coach’s agent? Why do you care? If he’s not getting it done, get him out and find someone better.
“That sort of schedule will lead to a lot of 9-3 seasons (some better, some worse). You may be happy, but a whole lot of other Buckeyes wouldn’t be. And there couldn’t possibly be a middle ground between “one or two teams with a pulse” and MI, PSU, NE, WI, MSU, ND and UT in one season?”
Michigan State is currently the only elite team on that list. Ohio State would be favored in every other game, some by double digits. Why are you so scared of that schedule? We have no idea what these teams will look like in 10 years. I hope they’re all good so I can look forward to 6-7 great games that season. But if they go 9-3 against that slate, they probably weren’t a Top 4 team anyway, so they don’t deserve to be in the playoffs.
“How many are scheduling UT and ND (or equivalent king programs) in the same year OOC?”
USC has them both in 2017-2018. USC has ND and Alabama in 2016. USC has ND and Tennessee in 2021-2022. USC and Ohio State are just ahead of the curve. Almost everyone is getting at least one good P5 OOC opponent, and when you look at the B1G’s perception, it’s not outrageous to expect Ohio State to have two.
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Blapples,
“Watching a high profile game between top 10 opponents is more fun than beating a team you’re favored by 20 over.”
Not for me, especially not if I’m paying for tickets and a trip to see it.
“High profile games sell more tickets and get better ratings among TV viewers.”
Until you start losing a lot of games every year, and then season ticket sales drop.
“Beating a tougher SOS gets you a better postseason.”
Not so far it doesn’t. The playoff hasn’t proven it will, either. Besides, SOS without a lot wins hurts you.
“Playing tougher competition shows your donors where you stand in the CFB arms race and donations will increase if you’re not up to snuff.”
No, they won’t. Winning increases donations. Losing hurts donations.
“And? Are you the coach’s agent? Why do you care?”
He gets fired because the fans are upset. Since I’m one of those fans, that means I’ve spent years seeing OSU lose lots of games and being upset with my team. I’d much prefer to lose 0 or 1 game every year and not be upset at OSU all the time.
“Michigan State is currently the only elite team on that list.”
And of course this year’s performance is the best predictor of future success.
“But if they go 9-3 against that slate, they probably weren’t a Top 4 team anyway, so they don’t deserve to be in the playoffs.”
Or they could have a more reasonable schedule and go 11-1 and miss the playoff but not aggravate as many fans.
This isn’t the NFL, where 11-5 is a great season.
“USC has them both in 2017-2018. USC has ND and Alabama in 2016. USC has ND and Tennessee in 2021-2022.”
So the answer is one. And that team is a rival with one of the two OOC foes. And that team is the only traditional king in its own conference, not one of four. And that team is in a conference that requires tougher schedules to fill the stadium.
“Almost everyone is getting at least one good P5 OOC opponent,”
And almost nobody is getting two kings, let alone playing 5 total kings. And then playing 6 road games to do it.
“and when you look at the B1G’s perception, it’s not outrageous to expect Ohio State to have two.”
Yes, it is. We don’t know what the B10’s reputation will be in 10 years.
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Bob Knight in the news again:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/09/04/us/ap-us-bob-knight-cow-accident.html
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24694209/college-football-playoff-identifies-fact-gatherers-for-each-conference
The playoff committee has assigned two point-people for each conference. They are the ones expected to have deep knowledge of all the team in that conference and share it with the other members.
• American: Mike Gould, Pat Haden
• ACC: Tom Jernstedt, Archie Manning
• Big Ten: Pat Haden, Condoleezza Rice
• Big 12: Barry Alvarez, Mike Tranghese
• Conference USA: Tom Osborne, Condoleezza Rice
• Mid-American: Barry Alvarez, Tyrone Willingham
• Mountain West: Oliver Luck, Archie Manning
• Pac-12: Mike Gould, Tom Osborne
• SEC: Oliver Luck, Steve Wieberg
• Sun Belt: Dan Radakovich, Tyrone Willingham
• Independents: Dan Radakovich, Steve Wieberg
2 P12 people for the B10. Interesting.
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It looks like Dan Radakovich has an easy job this year! The Sun Belt has a slim chance of getting anyone into the access bowl and there are only 4 independents and Army is generally irrelevant!
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Hate the B1G? Hard to find a more loathing tone than this gem from Rolling Stone. I don’t quibble with facts. Big Ten football is average. But why, if the MSU loss is the B1G’s last stand, is an Oklahoma loss not the B12’s last stand? Or FSU loss the ACC’s last stand? Especially considering the Big Ten had a pretty good first week. You would think, with the B1G being much more liberal than the SEC that Rolling Stone would feel some kinship. Nope. Get your bookmark ready Andy.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-big-tens-last-stand-michigan-state-and-oregon-in-college-footballs-new-era-20140905
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Yes, everyone seems to be talking about the MSU/OR game that way.
They are right that it’s our last chance to make a major statement OOC, but we have 48 OOC games to make statements with. If we keep winning a high percentage, that’ll say something, too.
http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/94889/sec-extends-lead-in-power-rankings-2
ESPN’s conference power rankings dropped the B10 a little despite having the second best OOC record, largely because of Miller’s injury (OSU dropped in the AP poll). Still, we’re way ahead of the ACC who dropped even more after a bad opening week.
The B12 is seen as having more depth, and that might be true. You can’t judge it after 1 week with any accuracy.
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Interesting statement on Game Day just a few minutes ago. Flat out said the the national perception for the B1G is that of a weak conference. Surprised me. Powerful fan support, alumni numbers and TV ratings, but if a show as popular as Game Day says it, could be some truth to this perception. Went on to say that today’s match ups of Michigan-Notre Dame, Oregon-Michigan State and Ohio State-Virginia Tech could make the B1G’s rep today or ruin it. I am thinking that the B1G will win two out of the three led by Michigan State to solidify the conference a spot in the Final Four. PAC seems solid, everybody hates the SEC so they seem in, two out of three goes a long way to put the big in. Florida State has a leg up as the defending champion. Could be a one loss B12 team could be on the outside looking in. B12 touts their equality so a one or two loss champion is a possibility. What do you guys think?
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It all depends on the teams. If Ohio St., USC, Florida St., Oklahoma and Mississippi St. are all 1 loss champs, most likely, the SEC sits on the sidelines.
I also think Game Day saying it doesn’t mean anything other than that’s the perception of the talking heads at ESPN.
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After today, perception appears to be reality.
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The B1G screwed themselves badly with realignment. I mean, really, Rutgers and Maryland?
Oklahoma wanted to join. Mizzou wanted to join. You could have had a B1G that looked like this:
West:
Oklahoma
Nebraska
Mizzou
Wisconsin
Iowa
Illinois
Minnesota
East:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Penn State
Northwestern
Indiana
Purdue
That’s a damn good league.
Now it’s week 2 and the B1G is basically shut out of the playoffs.
Just an amazingly bad day for the B1G. Unbelievable.
And Texas is getting curb stomped at home by BYU.
Wow.
Meanwhile the Pac 12 and SEC are both looking very strong.
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And in response to people way up thread from a conversation from a few days ago (and no I don’t come on here every day so sometimes my responses are delayed) who are saying that I’m wrong for saying that most B1G fans would have preferred Mizzou and either Kansas or Oklahoma to Rutgers and Maryland, the logic seems to be that because Rutgers and Maryland are high tier two schools and the Big 8 schools are mid tier two schools, and because New Jersey has a high population, that somehow Big Ten fans care about that more than sports. I highly doubt that. Sure, the wonks on this site care about academic rankings and conference network subscriber rolls. But the truth is 1) Mizzou and KU at least are AAU so they pass that threshold, 2) Missouri actually has 300k more people than Maryland, but most importantly 3) the absolute most important factor is that you have a league that is good at sports that people actually want to watch on tv. Adding Rutgers and Maryland undeniably made the B1G worse at sports. Your average national fan now views Big Ten sports as worse than the SEC, worse than the Pac 12, probably worse than the Big 12, maybe even worse than the ACC at this point. Take Mizzou and Oklahoma and the B1G is easily in the top 3 and maybe top 2. Now you all may make a couple million extra bucks per school per year from the BTN by taking Rutgers instead of Oklahoma (Maryland over Mizzou is a wash), but what’s the cost of that couple million bucks? The Big Ten has a bad reputation now. That hurts recruiting. It hurts ratings. It hurts attendance. Etc etc. Are Rutgers and Maryland going to draw attendees to games? Eyeballs to TV sets? Of course not. You wonks on here care about Rutgers’s upside and Maryland’s proximity to legislators, but your average fan doesn’t give a hoot.
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Well, that settles the issue. The presidents of the B1G schools and all of the experts and advisors that they hired are and were absolutely wrong. The addition of Missouri would clearly have made the B!G the preeminent athletic and academic conference in the county – no the world – make that universe. It is a shame that they were all too stupid to understand what Andy knows.
As an aside, yes it is true that the B1G is being viewed poorly in football (particularly with the ugly start to this season) because of the addition of the two east coast schools. RU and UMd have ruined this season for the B1G. It has nothing to do with an Ohio State QB getting hurt, or Michigan State and Michigan unfortunately getting clocked today. Nope it is the two new schools.
The wonks care about academics and network subscriber rolls. I agree with you that this is odd. Why should a conference of major universities care about academics or money? A group of major research universities actually care about academics?
Academics certainly have never been a concern for the SEC, and should not be for the B1G. Good analysis. Thanks.
You have again made your point brilliantly, Andy.
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“Well, that settles the issue. The presidents of the B1G schools and all of the experts and advisors that they hired are and were absolutely wrong.”
Yeah, pretty much. The presidents and their advisors decided to swing for the fences and go after Notre Dame and Texas and Virginia and UNC and Duke and they whiffed on all of them. And while they were busy whiffing the SEC picked up Mizzou and A&M, and the ACC picked up Syracuse, Pitt, Louisvillle, and Notre Dame.
The B1G was stuck with the leftovers.
Pretty big screwup.
As Gordon Gee has revealed, there was a minority that saw the correct path, but they were ignored.
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As for academics, it’s not like Mizzou, Kansas, and Oklahoma are weak schools. All have enrollment over 30k. Mizzou’s enrollment is 35k this year. Mizzou and KU are AAU. Mizzou and Oklahoma have ACT averages that rank above half a dozen B1G schools. They’ve all got endowments of well over a billion dollars. Are they as good as Maryland and Rutgers? No. Are they passable? They’re really no worse than Nebraska, and at least Mizzou is objectively better than Nebraska academically, and probably Indiana too.
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Andy, there are several possibilities. 1. (Most likely) Your bitterness over the snub of Missouri has blinded you to all else. 2. You are a troll and just want to stir up passions. 3. You have no clue what you are talking about. I hope it is not number 3.
The B1G probably went after ND and Texas, but for various reasons those were not possible scenarios, including the animosity between ND and various B1G schools and the Longhorn Network. That ignores whether UT had to bring along a little brother school.
The B1G may have gone after UVA and UNC and, if so, yes they refused to bolt from the ACC. We do not know. It is very unlikely that the B1G went after Duke, unless they were a package with UVA and UNC. Duke is a great academic and basketball school, but it is a small private university and probably does not deliver the State of North Carolina, much less any other state.
Missou was picked up by the SEC after the B1G made it clear that Missouri was not getting an invitation. I also believe that there has never been an indication that the B1G went after aTm. Texas A & M fits far better with the SEC anyway. Be glad that this gives Missouri a recruiting window into Texas.
Finally, Syracuse, Louisville, and Pitt. Are you seriously implying that the ACC grabbed these away from the B1G? None of these three would ever be taken by the B1G. Pitt offers the most by far, but the B1G would gain nothing by taking Pitt. The other two are not and never would be B1G targets for many reasons.
Your fantasies are interesting – sometimes. Generally you are blinded by anger regarding Missou, so you say whatever you can to drag down the B1G, particularly RU and UMd.
As I said before, be thrilled by being in the SEC. If not you could be coming here worrying about the possible demise of the Big 12 and where Missouri would land. That would really be pathetic.
Why can’t you be happy? Things for Missouri could be much much worse.
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Andy, Andy, Andy, you just don’t get it. The Big Ten has for decades been much more academically-oriented than its counterpart conferences, what with the CIC having been around since the late ’50s. And its overall athletic programs are as strong as any other league’s with the possible exception of the Pac (which dominates several regional sports such as water polo).
“Adding Rutgers and Maryland undeniably made the B1G worse at sports.”
Your skepticism regarding Rutgers — a very late arrival to the big-time athletics game — is justified, but Maryland has shown it can compete on a national level for several decades now (and it’s won NCAA championships in men’s and women’s basketball more recently than any other B1G member).
“Your average national fan now views Big Ten sports as worse than the SEC, worse than the Pac 12, probably worse than the Big 12, maybe even worse than the ACC at this point. Take Mizzou and Oklahoma and the B1G is easily in the top 3 and maybe top 2.”
For football, you have a point, but you wrote “sports,” not football. However, Maryland has a stronger overall athletic program than Mizzou even after cutting several programs, and has the AAU membership Oklahoma lacks (and won’t get anytime soon). You can argue Nebraska no longer is AAU, but had that been the case in 2010, there’s no guarantee Big Ten presidents would have reached out to Lincoln. They might have chosen Missouri, which was a victim of bad timing.
But at least your school landed on its feet; enjoy life in the SEC, where one wishes they put the same sort of zeal into improving their states’quality-of-life issues (see their national rankings in health and related topics — it’s not very good) that they do into college football.
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Except by the time that Mizzou would have been in the mix for #14, when the Maryland opportunity arose … Mizzou had already been picked as #14 for Texas A&M, as the SEC’s equivalent of Maryland becoming available happened first, so Mizzou wasn’t an option.
So its pointless to compare Whomever plus Mizzou to Maryland plus Rutgers, since Whomever plus Mizzou was not an actual alternative to Maryland plus Rutgers.
The actual comparison is whether #12 should have been Nebraska or Mizzou … and in that context, does your average Big Ten fan give a hoot about Mizzou’s athletic prowess? Its not as if adding Mizzou instead of Nebraska would have HELPED the Big Ten’s reputation on any rational third party assessment. When you are choosing between a King that has hosted not one, but two dynasty runs, and the second within the last couple of decades, and a mid-tier program that’s sometimes been OK and sometimes not so much … and the mid-tier program brings nothing special on any of the other issues make greasy snake-oil salesmen academic politicians happy … its really a slam dunk for Nebraska. Especially when part of what makes it a slam dunk has an expiration date attached, after which it gets a little bit more complicated.
Now, I’ve read the response to this before … “Oh, yeah, sure, take Nebraska, but at the same time the Big Ten *should* have taken …” … but no matter how hard the argument is bent and folded and mutilated, it never converts Mizzou into a #13 add for either the SEC or the Big Ten, so it always leave the “what if” hanging on a prospective #13 opportunity ACTUALLY PRESENTING itself, and in the event it was the Texas A&M opportunity that presented itself first, so its off to the SEC for Mizzou.
Instead of playing endless regret games about Mizzou not being seen as a #13 add by either the Big Ten or the SEC, what you should be doing is enjoying the down period of the SEC East while it lasts … if two out of the Vols, Gaters and Dogs get clicking at the same time, that division will be tough. If all three are clicking at the same time, it becomes a meat grinder.
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Andy I see some of your points, and have for a long time since I’m old enough to remember when the Pac12 dominated the Rose Bowl for nearly two decades straight (70s and 80s). But the season is still young:
What if OSU wins and VT goes on to compete for the ACC title? The game is still close, and much of the 4th still to play. Actually OSU just tied.
What if LSU runs the table in the SEC? Thus Wisconsin’s loss aint so bad.
Then what if OSU and Wisconsin play for the BIG championship? Suddenly the BIG winner has a legitimate argument for a playoff spot if the ACC, Big12 and even Pac12 winner has one loss.
The above are still possibilities. But I don’t feel too confident LSU and VT run the tables in their respective conferences. VT was very average last year. But who knows.
What cannot be denied is how close so many BIG games were today, outside the major losses by the Michigan schools. Neb can right the ship by winning their next two big, esp against Miami. But that was a damn near humiliating loss.
I’ve been saying for years, the BIG suffers from average prep football talent – but should dominate the basketball side, which they don’t – so many Final Fours, runners up, not enough championships.
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Well, Andy, have a big tall beer and enjoy. The BIG is really awful this year. It would take a miracle for this conference just to get a team in the playoff – divine intervention to win it all, if ever again.
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Frank, delete the two post attempts that I made under username Rocknsoul, I haven’t been on here much lately & forget my ACTUAL username: Gfunk. I’ll re-post them.
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Dear Andy,
There is life beyond football. Or has being in the SEC made you forget that by now?
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It goes through the B1G. NE and IA needed last minute touchdowns to pull out home buy game wins against McNeese State and Ball State; MD needed a 4th quarter comeback against S.FL; Purdue lost to Central Michigan. In the big prime time games MSU and MI lost, and OSU has not had a lead the entire game and looks like it will also lose. A very bad day for B1G football.
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Don’t forget that NIU beat Northwestern for the first time in history.
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Northwestern loses to NIU, Maryland struggled with USF, Rutgers won a close one over FCS Howard, Penn State unimpressive in their win over Arky State, Illinois struggled badly but beat WKU, Minnesota managed an 11 pt win at home over MTSU. Really the only solid win today fro the B1G was Wisconsin’s 34 pt win over FCS WIU.
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And OSU goes down at home 35-21 to unranked Va Tech.
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The Big 12 should add BYU (Football-only), Cincinnati (All-Sports) & Creighton (All-Sports except Football). It would solve the Sunday issue with BYU and Iowa State would have a true-travel partner in all other sports with Creighton while West Virginia gets the partner it needs to make this new Big 12 work. This would be the wisest move from the Big 12 and it would get them Championship Game TV money, probably a boost in the Tier-1 & Tier-2 TV contracts and a boost in basketball.
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Interesting out of the box thinking.
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I’d love to see BYU join the Big 12 in some capacity. That is too good of a program to get left out of the national conversation simply because they aren’t a part of a conference.
I realize they have a Sunday and time zone problem, but Big 12 needs to find a way to make it work.
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I’m just glad the ACC isn’t the red headed step child this year… so far. Wins at Ohio State and vs. Oklahoma State; a loss by league’s #2 at Georgia; a close loss to UCLA by one of the league’s worst teams; a bad loss by the worst team in the league at ULM; and otherwise wins all around against remaining competition. I will take it.
What Big Ten fans are experiencing are what ACC fans had year after year after year after year. I would so rather it be the obnoxious SEC having a bad day like this, but it’s nice for once that someome other than the ACC isn’t the butt of every college football joke. It probably won’t last because there are a lot of potential L’s lsft against SEC teams and the ACC usually beats itself into a bunch of 5-3 league records, but for now, the ACC isn’t the worst. Woo hoo!
Long term, the Big Ten will win because they’ll pay more for coaches, player benefits, etc., than the ACC ever could. But I’ll enjoy this for a little while.
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The big ten has a recruiting problem. Some of it is on bad coaching, especially Pelini and Hole, but the conference as a whole has poor natural recruiting grounds. MSU lost because of Mariota and not having a counter talent. Wisconsin lost because of depth. Adding New Jersey and Maryland will help but I am not sure the conference can win consistently without better pipelines into Florida and or Texas.
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WTF happened last night?
I admit that I did not do my part and watch all of the games due to sheer fatigue, an active 2.5 year old and twin 11 month old boys will do that to you, so MSU, MI and OSU lost? WTH!!! On top of that, my beloved Boilers got CRUSHED by Central Michigan, not that there is anything wrong with Central Michigan, but still. That game wasn’t even close… NW lost to NIU,Iowa almost lost, Nebraska should have lost… What has happened to BIG football? These losses can’t be blamed on weather. I mean we have facilities, coaches, and athletes, right?
Wow… What has happened to BIG football? More importantly, can we turn this around?
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DITB,
“WTF happened last night?”
Just last night? I’d say the whole day went about the same way.
“so MSU, MI and OSU lost?”
Badly, yes. All 3 teams had big questions entering the season and those areas got exposed. In addition, OR and ND look to be high quality teams (unsure about VT). Plus, traveling to OR is a tough thing to do.
“On top of that, my beloved Boilers got CRUSHED by Central Michigan, not that there is anything wrong with Central Michigan, but still.”
Actually, there is something wrong with CMU. They were predicted to be mediocre in the MAC (4th in their division). PU looks to have no talent (blame Hope for that) and still lacks an identity (blame Hazell in part). They look years away from being competitive.
“NW lost to NIU,”
NW is 1-9 since Game Day came to town for the OSU game. They kept claiming the union stuff wasn’t a distraction, and they don’t generally have a huge margin for error based on a limited quantity of talented depth. Losing Mark right before the season hurt a lot.
“Iowa almost lost,”
Great idea to lock in Ferentz for over $3M per year for the next decade. They are a developmental program, but they’re starting really slowly this year.
“Nebraska should have lost…”
I think those 700+ yards last week went to their heads and they took this game for granted.
“What has happened to BIG football?”
NCAA issues, bad coaches, weak recruiting, and a lot of coaching turnover recently.
“I mean we have facilities, coaches, and athletes, right?”
Facilities yes. The coaching is spotty with many newish coaches and several weak coaches. The athletes generally lag the better conferences by a little bit, especially in depth. The B10’s tighter recruiting rules hurt us.
“More importantly, can we turn this around?”
Eventually, yes. PSU will bounce back once they get a full roster. Meyer will get OSU back. MI will replace Hoke and improve. NE will either improve or replace Pelini. Andersen’s systems will get fully implemented with his type of player soon. Ferentz will retire and Iowa will get new blood. IL and PU have to find more talent and better coaches. RU, UMD and MN did OK and IN had a bye.
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Brian,
Kids change everything…
Sadly, I have to agree with all of your points. I think the conference needs new blood everywhere. The same people are looking for the same people and there is no “innovation” in the conference. Given our lack of recruiting and talent, we need something to provide an edge. Our current system isn’t delivering that.
I really didn’t know Central Michigan was picked to be 4th, man that hurts…
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No B1G team will be in the playoffs this year.
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B1G undefeated OOC schedules :
Rutgers – @ Washington State / Howard / @ Navy / Tulane
Penn State (not eligible) – Central Florida / Akron / Umass / Temple
Maryland – James Madison / @ South Florida / West Virginia / @ Syracuse
Indiana – Indiana State / @ Bowling Green / @ Missouri / North Texas
Nebraska – Florida Atlantic / McNeese State / @ Fresno State / Miami (FL)
Illinois – Youngstown State / Western Kentucky / @ Washington / Texas State
Iowa – Northern Iowa / Ball State / Iowa State / @ Pittsburgh
Minnesota – Eastern Illinois / Middle Tennessee / @ TCU / San Jose State
Maybe the Terps have the best shot at this point if they run the table?
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bob sykes,
“No B1G team will be in the playoffs this year.”
That was always a slim chance at best, especially after Braxton Miller got hurt. That left the MSU@OR game as the B10’s only chance to impress people, and winning on the road at a top 5 team is very hard, especially 3 time zones away.
OSU has a better chance next year because we’ll return a lot more starters than we did this year. We lost so much on offense that Miller carrying us was our only hope. The D also has a ton of fresh faces this year plus a new DC.
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Week 2 and the undefeated ranks are already thinned in the Big 5!
ACC —- 9 of 14 remain or 64.29% remain
Atlantic : Louisville 2-0, NC State 2-0, Florida State 2-0, and Syracuse 1-0 // 4 of 7
Costal : Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, Duke, UNC, and Virginia Tech all 2-0 // 5 of 7
Big 12 —- 6 of 10 remain or 60.00% remain
Kansas State, Oklahoma, Baylor, and Texas Tech all 2-0
TCU and Kansas both 1-0
B1G —- 8 of 14 remain or 57.14% remain
East : Rutgers 2-0, Penn State 2-0, Maryland 2-0, and Indiana 1-0 // 4 of 7
West : Nebraska, Illinois, Iowa, and Minnesota all 2-0 // 4 of 7
PAC —- 9 of 12 remain or 75.00% remain
North : California, Washington, Oregon, and Oregon State all 2-0 // 4 of 6
South : Southern Cal, Arizona, Utah, Arizona State, and UCLA all 2-0 / 5 of 6
SEC —- 11 of 14 remain or 78.57% remain
East : UK, MU, and UT all 2-0, UF and UGA both 1-0 // 5 of 7
West : OM, AU, TAMU, BAMA, MSU and LSU all 2-0 // 6 of 7
.
…
.
non Big 5 :
AAC : Cincinnati is 0-0 // 1 of 11 remain or 9.09%
CUSA : Marshall is 2-0 // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Brigham Young 2-0, Notre Dame 2-0. and Army 1-0 remain // 3 of 4 or 75.00%
MAC : Central Michigan and Northern Illinois are both 2-0 // 2 of 13 remain or 15.38%
MWC : Nevada and Wyoming are both 2-0 // 2 of 12 remain or 16.67%
SUNB : NM State & LA – Monroe = 2-0, S AL & TX St = 1-0 // 4 of 11 or 36.36%
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Big Ten football may be at an all-time low after yesterday. The national media is lambasting the conference right now, and for good reason.
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Looks like I picked the right year to start paying less attention to CFB.
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B1G : The changing of the Brands
For all the doom and gloom B1G talk, maybe we need to view this another way. Southern Cal was the sole owner of the PAC brand but their fall opened up Oregon and Stanford in the national discussion every year. If Alabama does not have their dark years would Florida or LSU have gained their day in the sun? The Big 12 seems mired in backing Texas and Oklahoma when Baylor and Kansas State have been carrying the load lately. Does the B1G follow the blind path the Big 12 has followed or do they flip and got the path of the PAC and SEC?
Penn State has imploded. The Big Red machine is showing some rust. This means the same old hope for Ohio State and Michigan and they have just been looking like Oklahoma and Texas lately. Maybe it is time for a new school or two to emerge, even if it means less UM and OSU exposure, just to insure the long term health of the B1G brand overall. Who in the “pack” of the B1G can benefit from better national exposure if it helps the B1G brand overall stay in the national press in a positive light?
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Duffman, I think that team is supposed to be Michigan State.
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I think Michigan State is supposed to be one of them but it needs to be more than just Michigan State. Maybe a rotation of 6 – 8 schools.
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You mean like WI’s run of three straight Rose Bowls? How about IA’s run of 3 straight 10+ win seasons in the early 200s plus a 2 year run late in the decade?
2001-2006 – at least 1 non-king won 10+ games
2007-2008 – 2+ non-kings won 9 games
2009-2013 – at least 1 non-king won 10+ games
Teams that stepped up – IA, IL, MSU, NW, WI
If the 4 kings would all take their turns (last 10+ win season: OSU – 2013, NE – 2012, MI – 2011, PSU – 2009) it would help.
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The Coaches’ poll is out.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/rankings/coaches
By conference.
SEC (8) #2 Bama, #5 Auburn, #6 Georgia, #8 A&M, #9 LSU, #15 Ole Miss, #22 Mizzou, #23 South Carolina
Pac-12 (5) #4 Oregon, #10 USC, #12 UCLA, #14 Arizona State, #16 Stanford
ACC (4) #1 Florida State, #19 VA Tech, #24 Clemson, #25 North Carolina
B1G (4) #13 Michigan State, #17 Wisconsin, #18 Ohio State, #21 Nebraska
Big XII (3) #3 Oklahoma, #7 Baylor, #20 K-State
Ind #11 Notre Dame
Games featuring ranked teams against P-5 opponents next week include:
#6 Georgia at #23 South Carolina
Purdue at #11 Notre Dame
Tennessee at #3 Oklahoma
#12 UCLA v. Texas at Arlington
#10 USC at BC
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Andy (aka Mizzou fan),
I agree with your criticisms of the BIG, though not your tone & the simple fact that you’re not a player-coach or inside administrator. You do come across as sour apples. Mizzou will have more success in the SEC, esp in terms of athletic performance in football – far better recruiting footprint than the BIG, the best football conference in terms of venues, rivalries and fanatical fans & more money, esp in 5 years. Notice the SEC doesn’t need conference exit fees, at least from what I know – they know their future is permanently bright. Nice to have the best prep football players nearby – you think.
Here are simple facts, as a BIG fan for 3 plus decades now:
**Very few Rose Bowl wins in the 70s, 80s, 2000’s and now the second decade of the 2000 millennium. The 90s was a golden decade for the BIG in the post-segregation era (70s).
**Blue-chip recruits have been slimmer to come by in the BIG region, outside Ohio mainly, for a long, long time. I can’t say much for NJ or MD, they have decent history producing players but not in a BIG perspective – not yet. Pa has produced some great players but on a per capita level they would be mid-tier in the SEC, esp on a per-capita level – which is so understated on message boards and general sports journalism contexts. Michigan and Illinois, though large states, lack infrastructure and tradition to produce great high school football, esp in relation to Black Americans. The reality of rural or suburban Black communities in the Midwest, Northwest, Rocky Mountain states and Northeast doesn’t exist on the same level as the Southeast, where such has been the norm for 100 plus years. Space, place and culture matter – typical arguments and social science realities in academia for decades now.
**The academic elitism and to some degree integrity held by BIG administrators, and unfortunately too many Internet BIG fans is long-term, deeply embedded in cultural realities – I refer to it as yesteryear thinking. It’s no lie the BIG avoided sending more than 1 team to bowl games for many decades. The reasoning was based on academic principles. Meanwhile, other institutions in P5 conference created a tradition of playing bowl games.
**The BIG is really an underdog conference in football for many of the reasons above. Its academic reputation, historical precedents (first major conference), passionate fans, revenue production are factors that have created a mythical perception, but behind the numbers a typical person can conclude the conference, under actual membership, has won 1.5 NCs since 1970 – dead last among the current P5.
**The BIG does produce excellent NFL players at a high rate, esp considering the mediocre recruiting footprint. I call this the cold weather factor. Such weather absolutely penalizes teams on the collegiate level due to a traditionally strong, sun-belt based bowl system, the lack of a credible playoff system & of course prep football infrastructure which has greater dependency on the collegiate level, developmentally speaking. We all know in the NFL that cold weather games are more typical – late season & playoff games often go through traditionally strong franchises based in the colder states: Pitt, Green Bay, Denver, Baltimore, New England, Chicago, Minnesota (once upon a time), Buffalo, both NY teams, Philly, etc. Thus many BIG alum, as well as from schools in other conferences located in colder climates of a footprint do succeed at the next level. Technique and application changes in a colder climate. Speed no longer kills – strength, stamina, angles and mental toughness become more essential.
Interestingly, I noticed a Neb fan point out that the BIG is a “basketball, w. volleyball, wrestling” and I’d add hockey conference. Notice the weather correlation? As for basketball, I’d argue the BIG dramatically underachieves and too often loses stellar blue chips to other schools and conferences – guess where? Warmer based schools. I think athletes in general thrive in warmer climates, esp for training purposes – even the indoor-based athletes. One only has to look at the Final Fours yet lack of NCs in BIG basketball, both sexes, but especially the men who have at least 2x more runners up than NCs since 1985 – that’s 3 NCs & 7 runners up.
It is what is: the BIG is terribly overrated in football & far too many fans flex elitist, economically biased arguments to validate their opinions, really insecurities. I don’t apologize for them – as even a BIG fan, I dislike it as much as you do. But, in total the BIG = best fans in all of college sports – they continue to root for an underdog conference, esp in football. I also think the BIG has done more essential, progressive measures to ensure the amateurism of college athletics/student-athletes. In fact, I don’t think any other conference comes close amongst the P5. But the academic arguments are going to become increasingly meaningless in the years to come. The NCAA is dying & look at the direction set by the O’Bannon case.
But the BIG better beware if a super-division is in the works. A lot of non-P5 FBS schools will have legitimate claims to be included in a super division format because they can factually hang with many teams in the BIG, weaker programs of other conferences as well. Expect Congress to get involved & I think many elected officials will target the BIG’s lack of relevance on the gridiron as case and point. The problem the BIG will bump into is right here, often on this site: arrogant fans that justify arguments based on money as apposed to actual field performance, the latter being a realm they can’t defend.
In saying all this, the BIG isn’t totally knocked out of the playoff:
If LSU runs the SEC table, other conferences produce 1-loss champs and Wisconsin dominates the BIG – they Badgers are likely in. You can’t exactly dismiss LSU yet – plenty of strong history. But I suspect they’ll lose. And what if VT wins the ACC? Does OSU look as bad as they seem at this point. In other words, the season is still young for the more elite teams. College football often surprises the fans. But, the majority of the BIG is just bad & it’s not a trend anymore (post-90s), it falls into a norm established in the 70s & post-segregation.
PS This writer is not responsible for bad grammar : ). Frank, get a spell check tool on here : ).
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@gfunk
Thanks for your time and effort. I enjoyed this a lot; especially after yesterday!
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My tone is a bit trollish because this board trolled Mizzou so much in year’s past that I have a chip on my shoulder. Maybe I take it a bit too far but I think I show pretty much restraint especially on weeks like these.
As for me not being a player, coach, or athletic director, ok? I guess you are one? Either way I never claimed to be one. I’m a Mizzou alum, a Michigan alum, and low level administrator at a Pac 12 school. I’m an avid college sports fan and have been for over 30 years. I follow this stuff as a hobby. What I say is mostly fact based opinions, unlike a lot of what’s written on here. But I don’t claim to be any kind of authority.
But yeah, despite opening your essay by calling me out, I agree with what you said otherwise.
The B1G as an athletic conference is in trouble. They had a chance to fix it. Adding Nebraska helped but they should have gone further. Missouri, Oklahoma, Kansas, those were opportunities for the B1G to make some gains. Well, less Kansas because their football is so bad. Missouri and Kansas aren’t any worse than Nebraska academically. They’re probably better actually. And Oklahoma is about on par with Nebraska. It was doable.
But they got cute. Chased after the NYC market and some better, but by no means elite, academic institutions. And now they’ve further watered down an already weak league that badly needed strengthening.
At this point the B1G is in very bad shape. Even if OSU, PSU, UMich, and Nebraska recover you’re still looking at a conference with at least 7 and maybe 8 or 9 really crappy football programs. That’s a bad situation to be in.
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“Chased after the NYC market and some better, but by no means elite, academic institutions.”
And when I say this I mean that’s what they did after Missouri was already in the SEC. Before that I think they were chasing Notre Dame, Texas, UNC, Duke, etc. All of those would have been great for the B1G but obviously it didn’t work out for them. So in a way this situation is a result of them aiming too high.
But even after Missouri, Texas, Notre Dame, UNC, and Duke were all off the table they still could have gone for Oklahoma and Kansas instead of Rutgers and Maryland.
Subscription fees are great and all but in the end this has to be about fan interest, entertainment value, and prestige. The B1G has set themselves up to be the #5 conference of the “Power 5”.
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I don’t think Wisconsin or Michigan State are remotely crappy football teams. Let’s not blow the MSU loss out of perspective – media commentary aside, Oregon was 1) at home, 2) the higher ranked team by 5 spots, 3) lost less than MSU from last year’s teams. I mean Andy, this overstatement is precisely why you get tons of crap on here. Oregon has been on an upswing for much longer than MSU in the post-segregation era, BCS as well & solidified themselves as a national program after making waves in the Pac10 then Pac12 – starting in the 90s & they were oh so close to winning it all against Auburn. MSU hasn’t played for NC in decades & has long been second tier in the state of Michigan.
So if you re-read my post – as a Mizzou fan you can hitch the coattails of SEC recruiting, but not in the BIG. Thus Md & Rutgers make more sense for 13-14 than Missouri because both have better high school football – but in the context of conference play Missouri holds a big edge because of SEC membership. You also seem to consistently forget the BIG went for Neb, which was easy decision for no. 12. I think all conferences were reluctant to go past 14. The SEC naturally went first because it doesn’t have dilution risks compared to other P5 conferences – so much regional prep talent. When the BIG went for 13 and 14, Missouri was gone – reality check!
I know, cliche coming here: “football drives the bus” but the BIG is fine as an overall athletic conference.
I know football is as American as apple pie, but so is this nation’s ability to give up on something if it doesn’t work or fall in its favor. CF popularity runs the risk of being regionalized, people will continue to support the NFL. I know plenty of folks here in Minnesota who care less about CF, but love the Vikings. It’s really simple: no passion if you can’t root for a local team, no care if they don’t feel a system is fair.
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Not sure where you think I said that MSU is a crappy football team.
I said the B1G has 7 or maybe 8 or 9 crappy football teams. Out of 14. That leaves plenty of room for MSU to be good.
But compare that to the SEC that has maybe 2 or 3 crappy football teams out of 14. Or the Pac 12, that has maybe 3 crappy teams out of 12. Or the Big 12, that has maybe 2 or 3 crappy teams out of 10.
As far as football, I agree that Mizzou is better off in the SEC. That seems pretty clear at this point. And as far as football, the B1G should have added Nebraska, Mizzou, and Oklahoma in 2012. All would have agreed.
And yes, football does drive the bus.
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“…the B1G should have added Nebraska, Mizzou, and Oklahoma in 2012. All would have agreed.”
I missed the part where the Okla Board said OkSU was on its own, or where UT was no longer the target, or when OU was granted double secret AAU membership, or where corn fields and tumbleweeds provide the demographic makeup the conference specified it was attempting to improve.
These are academic institutions. Athletics are a part of the equation, but academic minded chancellors and presidents make the decisions, not fans. And they think of the conference in the same way.
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Sure, there would have been debates, but OU, as an institution, wanted to join the B1G. No, they’re not AAU. But neither is Nebraska. And OU isn’t any worse academically than Nebraska. Really depends on if the B1G wants to be a good football conference or not.
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“No, they’re not AAU. But neither is Nebraska.”
UNL was when admitted.
“And OU isn’t any worse academically than Nebraska.”
Yes, they are.
They also have a sibling that they care about. And the horned one they benefit through association with, possibly as much as B1G membership.
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test
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ok, so maybe they’ll all post at once at some point. Trying to post and they’re not going through. I’ll try reformatting:
Oklahoma’s USNews rank is the same as Nebraska’s at 101. Their ACT average is 1 pt higher. Their enrollment 6k higher. Their endowments are the same size.
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^That was supposed to be a response to CCRider desputing my claim that Nebraska isn’t any better than Oklahoma academically. I mean, in somethings they are, in others they aren’t. Neither is AAU. Neither is elite. They’re both just regular state schools.
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http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2013-14/world-ranking/
NE: 251-275
MO: 301-350
OK: 351-400
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ARWU vs fish wrap…
UNL ARWU world rank just outside the top 200.
OU ARWU world rank outside the top 400.
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Okay, so if matching Nebraska’s 201-300 ARWU designation is the new gold standard criteria for B1G membership then Oklahoma would not qualify, but the following schools would:
Missouri
Florida State
Louisiana State
Cincinnati
Kentucky
Oregon
South Carolina
Tennessee
Washington State
You sure you want ARWU to be the only criteria to use?
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Qualifying wasn’t the question. You asserted OU and UNL were basically the same.
201-300 is a better rank than 401-500. By quite a bit.
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I also said that by some criteria they’re better and by some they’re worse.
ACT average OU is better
Enrollment size OU is B1Gger
USNews Ranking is exactly tied
Endowment size is tied
Both are identically not AAU
ARWU NU is ahead somewhat.
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Is ACT at average better? Or only “somewhat” better?
Is it surprising Texahoma might have more prospective students?
Equal endowment without benefit of oil $’s.
AAU. No. One was, and was one vote switch short of remaining a member. The other hasn’t been, and isn’t close to admission.
Why keep citing the fish wrap? I find that not identical at all.
We apparently differ on the defination of “somewhat”. 2X is somewhat?
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Oil money is worse than corn money? If so, why? Is Rice a crappy school because Oil money? UT?
ACT average at OU is a full point higher than at Nebraska.
A lot of people like the smell of fish wrap I suppose.
Nebraska is AAU because they got in 112 years ago when the criteria was completely different and nobody bothered to kick them out until they lagged so far behind the rest of the AAU that it simply couldn’t be ignored anymore.
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***correction, Nebraska WAS AAU.
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Rice got its start from Cotton and real estate money. Spindletop and the discovery of oil in Texas hadn’t happened yet.
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Sure, but OU was founded before they found oil as well. Don’t you think both have their share of oil money at this point?
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“Oklahoma’s USNews rank is the same as Nebraska’s at 101. Their ACT average is 1 pt higher. ”
What does that have to do with anything? Big Ten President’s are interested in buyer’s guide ratings for where their kids should go to school, they are interested in academic prestige. Turning to the USNWR undergrad rankings to measure the prestige of a school’s graduate programs is like the drunk looking for his keys under the streetlamp because its so much darker over by where he dropped them.
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Academics, and money too, might be the only things that will save the conference in the end. As much as those things mean nothing on internet boards compared to results on the field, they are paramount to the majority of college administrators. Notre Dame faculty and administrators were heavily in favor of joining the Big Ten only to be shot down by boosters.
Expansion is the only thing that can save the Big Ten football. You are right that they have been overrated for awhile. PSU was actually brought in in part to improve the football but in reality has failed miserably as the program has been in steep decline since the mid-90s. Besides Ohio State, they are the only team with significant talent levels within a 4-6 hour drive radius with little competition. The conference must expand into better recruiting grounds. They have zero shot of making in roads south without local ties due to the poor perception of the conference.
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If access to the South is what makes or breaks a conference, why not just throw a bone to Memphis (State), or give some SWAC school a golden lottery ticket? A more reasonable approach would be to swing and miss with UVA (likely would take it), UNC, NCSU, GTech, and FSU as your reach school.
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From my consistent observations of annual recruiting rankings: the key recruiting states in the south are Fla, Ga, La (first tier), Va, NC, Al, SC & maybe Tenn on the next tier. Tx is Southwest, but the SEC now has aTm. Inroads to Tn therefore don’t help much, they have a borderline blue blood program, Vandy, and probably 2 other FBS schools, minimum. In saying this, the whole Southeast ranks high in per capita talent & the rise pf the ACC, which I’ve warned people on here for years now, makes it really hard for the BIG to crack the Southeast.
What blows my mind here are the fans who root for teams with these built in advantages – Andy your looney posts are welcome – but rooting for Goliath, it’s just so unoriginal & it takes very little talent and knowledge to do so. I mean Jesus H Damn Christmas, the SEC does what is supposed to do considering the riches of talent. I rarely, if ever, go on a high horse about Minnesota hockey when we play against programs that don’t have equivalent prep hockey talent. I was impressed with Union beating us last year for the NC. NY doesn’t have Mn prep hockey, and Union is a tiny liberal arts college. Good for damn them, though I’m still bitter : ). We are an under-achieving hockey program, despite 5 NCs. In other words, that’s how much talent we have in this state when it comes to prep hockey, thus expectations are high like other blue blood programs in a particular university.
The bigger question is: Do colder climate states want to compete with the Sun Belt? Is it so damn important to have consistently powerful college football programs in the colder states? If so, money please. At least one year-round facility in each state, with two fields and a league system that is more privatized ABSOLUTELY changes the game – but it is a BIG IF. Money is the biggest obstacle next to the fact that less and less people care. I just think plenty of cold weather states are fine with an NFL team, in part because these teams have the resources to pay for most things outside full costs for a stadium. The farm system of college football is popular, but the expectations have decreased so long as we get our quality draft picks and continue to attend the biggest church on Sundays: our NFL teams. It no longer really matters where these kids played college football. What’s more important is how do these draft picks perform in a Chicago Bears or Minnesota Vikings uniform. God, even my average non-football neighbors know the odds cold weather football teams have at the collegiate level. CF has always had a more salient local passion, thus an advantage for schools especially surrounded by fertile recruiting (pardon Illinois here, they don’t capitalize on their basketball talent – see definition of “anomaly”, a handful of other schools fall in this category as well).
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The SEC has its Davids and Goliaths as well, within their Goliath conference.
And its not like Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Nebraska don’t have their share of built in advantages at this point.
I sympathize with your plight. My wife and both her siblings are Gopher grads. And Mizzou in the 80s and 90s wasn’t any different from Minnesota.
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OSU, PSU, Neb (especially), Mi can have the largest and most beautiful facilities – but the local recruits aren’t in excess outside Ohio. This is utter, statistical fact – recruiting data is undeniably available. All these schools also have average colder climates than even Mizzou or KU.
You don’t need to empathize with me on Minnesota – it is what it is – I care so little at this point. But I am fascinated in the concept of how the BIG becomes a national conference with the weather and non-local disadvantages. Organizational culture is a very interesting concept that can work – see Oregon, Wisconsin, even MSU and Neb once upon a time. ND of course. Building tradition on the basis of effort , success and belief is impressive, even with all the money.
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“But I am fascinated in the concept of how the BIG becomes a national conference with the weather and non-local disadvantages.”
I am too. The issue isn’t getting a share of elite players, which looking at the NFL ranks, shows that elite talent does exist in the BIG footprint. However to complete on a national scale, depth is what is needed. The elite teams in the SEC, thru local talent and over signing, have above average players at every position as well as backing up. The over signing advantage will go away eventually with 4 year scholarships but the local talent will not. Wisconsin had enough starters, save for quarterback, to compete with LSU but once injuries occurred, they were sunk. Michigan State was beating Oregon but wore down in the 2nd half. Top programs can come at you in waves and the BIG teams can’t keep up.
Now, PSU and OSU have enough talent in a local radius to be able to compete against the SEC if they completely dominate the region but every recruit going south or somewhere else is a huge blow where if a couple of top kids from Florida or Texas go to Ohio State, the local teams still have plenty to choose from.
Universities have in the past built great programs without local recruits. Oregon is the prime example right now. However, Oregon is in a conference with a great recruiting footprint into California. If you compare climate, Southern California blows away Oregon or anywhere for that matter yet the Ducks have been successful stealing recruits from that state. This is why further expansion will help the BIG. The addition of Maryland and Rutgers should help the eastern division teams. The real gold mine for the BIG is Florida and Texas followed by Georgia and Virginia. If the BIG can expand into a few if not all of those states, they can rebound to become a competitive 2nd or 3rd place conference behind the SEC.
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Psuhockey: “Now, PSU and OSU have enough talent in a local radius to be able to compete against the SEC if they completely dominate the region but every recruit going south or somewhere else is a huge blow where if a couple of top kids from Florida or Texas go to Ohio State, the local teams still have plenty to choose from.”
… which is the level where having the balance of the non-Sunbelt State recruiting hotspots in the conference can help. Rutgers will not have the only top level New Jersey recruits playing in the Big Ten, nor will Maryland have the only top Maryland recruits playing in the Big Ten.
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Psuhockey,
“Expansion is the only thing that can save the Big Ten football.”
I think that overstates it. Expansion can hurt just as easily as help. Better hiring and more allocation of resources would also help football.
“PSU was actually brought in in part to improve the football but in reality has failed miserably as the program has been in steep decline since the mid-90s.”
They felt beholden to JoePa and let him stay too long. Once they get past their scholarship restrictions, I think they’ll bounce back quickly. That will help the B10 tremendously. So will MI hiring a better coach. NE could probably use an upgrade, too.
“The conference must expand into better recruiting grounds.”
We just did. How about giving it a few years to see the impact?
“They have zero shot of making in roads south without local ties due to the poor perception of the conference.”
The B10 has been recruiting the south, especially FL, for years. I know OSU has pulled some stud players (4* and 5*) from the south, and others probably have, too.
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gfunk,
welcome back…
DITB
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Well, just in time for Sunday, an opinion piece by William S. Husak, Vice President and Director of Intercollegiate Athletics at Loyola Marymount University, on what he believes will be a downsizing of college athletics in the years ahead:
http://thefieldsofgreen.com/2014/09/06/downsizing-of-college-athletics/
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Consolidation and contraction is inevitable. There are very few athletic departments in the black today. That debt will only go up once the full-cost of tuition are applied to all sports. The SEC and the BIG are poised to leave others behind by a good 10 mil a year at least in the next 3-5 years. So that will be at least 100 million more than the ACC and Big 12 before the GORs are up.
Also, networks are paying schools like Iowa State and Wake forest 15-20 mil a year just to show schools like Texas and Florida State. At some point they will stop or the big schools will want that 15-20 going to them. The SEC and BIG have the least schools that bring nothing to the table so they are much more sound.
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Don’t let that falling sky hit you too hard…
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I don’t completely agree with his vision.
In the end, athletic departments will offer fewer sports, a diminished quality of the experience and perhaps even fewer roster spots for those sports that remain in a department.
…
I believe that conference membership will also decrease. The conferences formed recently with large memberships will settle into finding institutions that are more geographically, budgetary and philosophically aligned. On the horizon will be a new wave of realignment, which may also include either a downward movement toward Division II or another separation within Division I (as has occurred with the Power Five conferences). That movement would not be exclusive to the 285 or non-Power Five institutions, but would also include institutions currently included in the Power Five. Each of these five conferences has institutions that struggle monetarily and are consistently found near the bottom of conference standings in football and other revenue sports. Those at the top of the budget pyramid for a conference, and especially traditional conference powers, could easily question the importance and relevance of a lower-level university athletics program’s worth, and perhaps even view them as a resource drain. It will be interesting to see how this dynamic plays out in the years to come. The number of conferences will increase, but the average number of schools within a conference will decrease.
The final downsizing I see is a reduction from the Power Five to Four. Five is an odd number and does not work well in many respects. In years past, the talk centered around four super conferences with 12-16 teams in each. If the rationale was valid in splitting the 10 Division I major football playing conferences in half, it becomes even more valid to eventually justify four conferences with fewer institutions. Whatever that final number may be, it will certainly be fewer than 65.
I agree we are likely to see some teams cut and others downsized in roster and/or resources. We’ll probably see some schools drop down a division. Further consolidation from the P5 to the P4 is certainly possible once the GoRs expire.
Would a P4 contain fewer than the 65 schools in the P5? That hasn’t happened so far. The P5 is larger than the original BCS AQs (12+12+11+10+9+8+1 = 63). I could see some ACC and/or B12 schools left behind this time, though, so it’s certainly possible. I have a hard time imagining the B10, P12 or SEC kicking out somebody though.
I’m also not sure going to more conferences is likely. Consolidation is the current trend. Perhaps he thinks the limited budgets for travel will force all the smaller programs to create smaller conferences. I tend to think the fight for TV money will still drive many of them to go for a bigger conference with more markets.
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P-12 has kicked a school out by disbanding and forming a new league. That is how it rid itself of Idaho in the late 50s. Apparently, the league was disbanded because of “pay for play” scandals at Cal, USC, UCLA, and UW. But given that a new 5-team league was almost immediately reformed, before recapturing all schools but Idaho within a few years, this may have been a subterfuge.
BIG’s biggest problem is that it has two teams from Indiana, and neither has ever been the best football program in that state! Another big problem is that Illinois’ flagship school is nowhere close to Chicago. (BTW, how did that happen?). Demographics aside, the conference is structurally challenged by these types of issues.
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Redwood86,
“P-12 has kicked a school out by disbanding and forming a new league.
That is how it rid itself of Idaho in the late 50s. Apparently, the league was disbanded because of “pay for play” scandals at Cal, USC, UCLA, and UW. But given that a new 5-team league was almost immediately reformed, before recapturing all schools but Idaho within a few years, this may have been a subterfuge.”
A group of 5 formed right away, consisting of 4 of the scandal schools plus Stanford (also known as the 4 CA schools plus UW). It took 3 years to add WSU and 2 more years to add OR and OrSU. The 3 later additions were initially rejected along with Idaho, in part over academic standards. The others persisted in trying to get in while Idaho didn’t, joining the Big Sky instead after a brief timer an independent.
I’ve seen no account that claims it was subterfuge. They could have just voted Idaho out if they wanted that. My reading makes it seem more like Idaho accepted that they hadn’t been competitive for a while and were willing to play lesser foes instead.
I don’t see that as kicking someone out, but you may. Besides, you should note that I specifically commented on the BCS era and more recent times. Farther back things get murky, with all the independents, the death of the Big 8 and SWC (nobody was kicked out per se, but U, Rice and SMU never regained power conference membership), creation of NCAA divisions (the Idaho loss was before D-I, D-II, etc, let alone I-A and I-AA), etc.
“BIG’s biggest problem is that it has two teams from Indiana, and neither has ever been the best football program in that state!”
No, but one has won multiple national titles in MBB and other sports and the other is an elite engineering school that used to be competitive in CFB (even elite briefly). Not being as good as ND at football is a pretty high bar. How many school can match it?
“Another big problem is that Illinois’ flagship school is nowhere close to Chicago. (BTW, how did that happen?). Demographics aside, the conference is structurally challenged by these types of issues.”
Sure it is. But the B10 has very deep ties that go well beyond athletics. They’d rather lose some games than kick out a colleague.
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Your tin foil hat is too tight. Disbanding, and reforming over several years to remove Idaho? The Vandals were a founding member of the Big Sky Conference a year before the rest of the “pac” had joined the AAWU to become (informally) the PAC-8.
Temple remains the only school booted from a power conference.
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I don’t think any team is going to get booted from a power conference. I think any contraction will happen voluntarily. Some schools will say it is just not financially feasible to continue to compete in big time athletics. Maybe I am overestimating the future increase of full cost scholarships, unlimited meals, health insurance, and whatever else get thrown into the mix. However, the majority of schools are in the red now so any added costs will increase that debt. Couple that with rising tuition to the point it will decrease the available pool of students plus a decrease in government funding and borderline schools could have tough decisions to make in the future.
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Majority of schools have always been in the red.
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If those costs do not increase to soak up any increases in media revenue … then some other costs will.
The top programs always have a strong incentive to look for ways to convert most of their surpluses into costs that boost their competitive standing (since they do not get to keep the surpluses, which would just go to the eggheads in the BS factories), only keeping enough cushion to show a small profit to the institution to avoid political problems. Then the programs contending against the top programs have to “spend to keep up”, at the cost of subsidies, “or else we’ll fall behind”. And that filters down the totem pole in normal arms race fashion.
The big money schools have decided that these particular increases in the funds going to the athlete-scholars (putting first in name what is first in reality) is the politically prudent thing to do, and so everyone else will follow suit according to their standing and capabilities … but if it wasn’t going in that direction, it would go to facilities, or coaches salaries, or marketing, or something else, with everyone else also ending up following suit according to their standing and capabilities.
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“P-12 has kicked a school out by disbanding and forming a new league. That is how it rid itself of Idaho in the late 50s. Apparently, the league was disbanded because of “pay for play” scandals at Cal, USC, UCLA, and UW. But given that a new 5-team league was almost immediately reformed, before recapturing all schools but Idaho within a few years, this may have been a subterfuge.”
The 5-team league was almost immediately reformed and then the previous schools rejoined in a couple of years for the same reason the original conference was formed, because joining a conference playing those schools made sense.
“Another big problem is that Illinois’ flagship school is nowhere close to Chicago. (BTW, how did that happen?).”
That was the University of Chicago deciding to reduce the emphasis on athletics to protect its academic reputation … U Chicago and the Illini in the same Power Conference made quite a bit of sense, until U Chicago adopted the strategy of ACTUALLY having “student athletes”, which implied bowing out of the power conference football arms race.
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According to several sources, the NCAA has lifted the bowl and scholarship sanctions on Penn State.
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The SEC’s TV assignments are out for 9/20. While its not the best example of how ESPN values the SECN with regard to assignments as it relates to The Deuce, it shows that the SECN is more important than ESPNU.
#1 Florida at Bama CBS 2:30p Central
#2 Miss State at LSU ESPN 6p
#3 South Carolina at Vandy SECN 6:30p
#4 Indiana at Mizzou SECN 3p
#5 Troy at Georgia SECN 11a
#6 Northern Illinois at Arkansas ESPNU 6p
A&M at SMU is part of the AAC’s package and will be shown at 2:30p on ABC/ESPN2
We’ll see who is higher on the pecking order (SECN or ESPN2) on October 4. My guess is ESPN2, but SECN will get a #3 game a few times a year.
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U$C says “what the ..?”
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11489258/ncaa-drops-postseason-ban-penn-state-nittany-lions
The NCAA has ended Penn State’s postseason ban, effective immediately, and returned the school’s full complement of football scholarships in 2015-16.
Earlier today the NCAA agreed to let the $60 million fine they issued stay in the state.
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frug,
“The NCAA has ended Penn State’s postseason ban, effective immediately, and returned the school’s full complement of football scholarships in 2015-16.”
While I disagree with the decision to make these changes to their punishment on principle, I’m not upset. In fact, I’m happy for PSU and the B10.
“Earlier today the NCAA agreed to let the $60 million fine they issued stay in the state.”
This is a change I have no problem with at all. A fine seemed appropriate, but leaving the money in PA where the victims were makes sense. As long as somebody is being helped with that money, the fine is serving its purpose.
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I think they lose that one in court (the money out of state) or in the legislature. So they gave in. More reacting to court challenges instead of doing away with stupid stuff up front.
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What fortunate timing for the Big Ten!
Under the original sanctions, Penn State would not have been eligible for the post-season until 2016. Perhaps more importantly, PSU will now be able to give out all 85 scholarships right away rather than waiting a few more years as the number of schollies ramped up (originally 65 in 2014, but changed to 75, then 80 in 2015 and 85 in 2016).
It’s a remarkable coincidence seeing that the conference is due to begin negotiations on its new television contracts in the Fall of 2015. One can only imagine how happy Jim Delany is now that Penn State football will be “back” earlier than originally expected. And who knows? The original projections for conference distributions once the new contracts were finalized was around $42M to $44M per school. With PSU operating with full scholarships, etc. and the B1G featuring a nine-game conference schedule starting 2016, that number could end up at $45M or perhaps $46M per school.
Don’t we all love how college football works?
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http://www.bigten.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090814aac.html
The B10’s statement about PSU. The bowl money fine is still in place for all 5 years, just as the NCAA kept their $60M fine intact.
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I didn’t agree with full body of sanctions imposed on PSU, but man, they’re Internet fanbase is horrible, generally speaking. The amount of blame they lay on the BIG, which is broad, sweeping generalizations at its worse coupled with a popular sentiment of bashing the liberal media is beyond incredulous. Hindsight history will reveal this entire chapter of PSU history as a low point for college sports & the blind stupidity & loyalty given to football.
Can we also say “hypocrites” in resounding fashion – Mitchell is a classic Northeastern liberal & was he ever instrumental in bringing yesterday’s decision to light. I’m afraid that a pattern could emerge out of this euphoria and looney behavior displayed by so many PSU football fans. This pretty much captures these nuts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0
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Sadly, those individuals are more Paterno fans than Penn State fans. They would gladly burn. down the university to fight for his image. My generation of alumni don’t feel that way at all. They are right to blame the media: the media is what indoctrinated them to believe joe was some kind of saint. In reality he was a man equally capable of both great and terrible deeds. I can’t speak for what he was, but the Joe Paterno of the 2000’s was a selfish old man only caring about keeping his job, and his idiot son employed, to the detriment of the university. That is my only real gripe about the media coverage of the situation. The cover up was not done to protect the image of Penn State football; it was done to protect the image of Joe Paterno and the 3 other administrators. For all the good he did to build the program, he in the end brought shame to it and those 4 men should have all been tried and punished.
As much as the NCAA had no jurisdiction in this criminal case, the sanctions were the best thing to happen to the university. By accepting a harsh and swift punishment, public opinion has started to soften on the school. Fighting them or drawing this out would have only prolonged the fevered hatred the public felt at the time. The Paterno fans would have gladly accepted a bunker mentality and fought but that would have done damage to the University that would have taken decades to repair. That is why at heart these internet idiots are not true Penn State fans and I hope not alumni. Penn State is more than reputation of one man.
Lastly the Big Ten hate stems from the cold reception the school received when they joined and getting blatantly screwed by the officials against Michigan since the beginning. Many believe the Penn State is an outsider but if they stepped back they would realize that getting screwed by the officials against Michigan is the most Big Ten thing of all, shared by every other school in the conference.
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I could see PSU fans not wanting to be in the B1G prior to the Rutgers and Maryland additions as they were somewhat isolated. I think going forward that changes quite a bit. They now have 3 schools close enough in OSU, Rutgers and Maryland. And who knows maybe that continues to evolve with other eastern school additions down the road.
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Psuhockey,
“Lastly the Big Ten hate stems from the cold reception the school received when they joined”
Delany has repeatedly admitted the process was wrong back then, and the surprise led to the negative reactions from ADs and coaches. The B10 fans weren’t overly happy, mostly because PSU wasn’t a midwestern school and the B10 was a midwestern league. Also, the arrogance of PSU fans touting their grand experiment and how only they did things the right way didn’t go over well (much like how ND is viewed by many). They also spent some time telling B10 fans how they were going to dominate us all in football for the foreseeable future (NE fans did the same thing).
At what point do PSU fans plan to get over what happened almost 25 years ago? Especially considering that the president of PSU was thrilled with the academic gains PSU made because of joining the B10 and the CIC. I’ve always thought part of the problem was PSU having to give up independence. I think that still rankles some of the old school fans who’d rather play their old schedule than a B10 schedule and don’t like group decision making. Being the only eastern school was always a complicating factor since it separated PSU from the others culturally.
“and getting blatantly screwed by the officials against Michigan since the beginning. Many believe the Penn State is an outsider but if they stepped back they would realize that getting screwed by the officials against Michigan is the most Big Ten thing of all, shared by every other school in the conference.”
Well said. This is where I think giving up independence hurt. PSU was the big fish in their own pond before joining the B10, and now their just one of many big fish in a much bigger lake. That takes getting used to.
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The other problem is that the Penn State fan base is so singularly focused on football that it has almost never acknowledged what Big Ten membership has done for both PSU’s entire athletic program and the university as a whole. Joining the B1G enabled Penn State to build the Bryce Jordan Center and gave it a legit, big-time conference home for all its athletic teams. (Would PSU have its array of NCAA titles in wrestling and both men’s and women’s volleyball were it still in the Atlantic 10? Almost certainly not.) And thanks in large part to the CIC, research parks have sprung up all around State College. The Penn State of 2014 is a far cry from the Penn State of 1974 or 1984, and the Big Ten is the primary reason why.
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USN&WR 2015 Undergrad rankings are out.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
P-5 rankings by conference.
Pac-12: #4 Stanford, #20 Cal, #23 UCLA, #25 USC, #48 Washington, #88 Colorado, #106 Oregon, #121 Arizona, #129 Arizona State, #129 Utah, #138 Oregon State, #138 Washington State
ACC: #8 Duke, #23 Virginia, #27 Wake Forest, #31 BC, #35 GA Tech, #48 Miami, #58 Syracuse, #62 Clemson, #62 Pitt, #71 VA Tech, #95 Florida State, #95 NC State, #161 Louisville
B1G: #13 Northwestern, 29 Michigan, #42 Illinois, #47 Wisconsin, #48 Penn State, #54 Ohio State, #62 Purdue, #62 Maryland, #70 Rutgers, #71 Iowa, #71 Minnesota, #76 Indiana, #85 Michigan State, #99 Nebraska
SEC: #16 Vandy, #48 Florida, #62 Georgia, #68 A&M, #88 Alabama, #99 Mizzou, #103 Auburn, #106 Tennessee, #113 South Carolina, #129 LSU, #129 Kentucky, #135 Arkansas, #149 Ole Miss, #156 Miss State
B-12: #53 Texas, #71 Baylor, #76 TCU, #106 Iowa State, #106 Kansas, #106 Oklahoma, #142 K-State, #145 OK State, #156 Texas Tech, #168 West Virginia
Ind: #16 Notre Dame
Other FBS schools of interest for realignment purposes:
#19 Rice
#54 Tulane
#58 UConn
#58 SMU
#62 BYU
#103 Buffalo
#121 Temple
#129 Cincy
#149 San Diego State
#161 USF
#173 UCF
#189 Houston
#189 New Mexico
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Nebraska and Missouri are tied. Interesting.
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Fluctuates ever year. Over the last 10 years or so Mizzou has randomly jumped around between 85 and 99. Nebraska has jumped around between about 93 and 108. It’s basically a plus or minus 7 any given year. These measurements aren’t very precise.
Mizzou has trended down a bit though. It’s likely that by expanding enrollment from 25k to 35k over the last 10 years they’ve hurt their student-to-faculty ratio and things like that, which caused them to slide a bit. A new fundraising campaign starts next year at Mizzou to address some of those issues.
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I know this is one small variable in the realignment equation, but BYU would land at #2 in the Big 12; tied for #3 in SEC; #6 in the PAC 12; tied for #7 in the B1G; and tied for #8 in the ACC. So, basically, above average for an Autonomy 5 program.
BYU would also land in the top-3 for home football game attendance in the Big 12.
Seems like a good fit, IMO.
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USNWR rankings? I don’t think its even one small variable on the realignment equation … academic status and prestige are, but academic status and prestige do not rest on undergraduate buyer’s guide rankings.
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Don’t underestimate the effect USNews can have on a school’s prestige. Just ask WashU St.
If there wasn’t a benefit to gaming USNews rankings schools wouldn’t bother with it.
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Makes sense…Pac 12 and ACC a level above everyone else, Big 12 and SEC at the bottom, B1G right there in the unsurprising middle of mediocrity
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Lost in the news about Penn State and the NFL’s handling of the Ray Rice situation is the news that Donna Shalala will step down next year.
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/education/university/donna-shalala-former-uw-chancellor-to-retire-as-university-of/article_40fd6eaf-d90f-5e36-83cf-28b0e8197ce4.html
Football won its fifth national championship a few months after Shalala’s inauguration as Miami’s fifth president. It has not won a title since, and the program is beginning to emerge from a cloud that hung over it for years after a former booster and convicted Ponzi scheme architect went public with tales of lavish spending on athletes in violation of NCAA rules.
The NCAA investigation ended last year, but not before Shalala — who was complimentary of the NCAA for much of the process, until it became known that investigators working the case were breaking their association’s own rules — lashed out at the governing body for college sports and demanded that Miami be treated more fairly.
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Many old Big East fans thought of Shalala as total lying b#tch, piece of garbage. Miami was in big trouble and many people felt that the football program would never recover. Then the BE came along and welcomed UM. It was mutually beneficial. Miami came back and won a national championship while in the BE. Shalala made it clear that Miami knew how much UM owed to the BE. She promised loyalty to the league. A couple of months after that pledge, UM jumped ship with BC. As we all probably know, the third team was supposed to be Cuse at that time, but the Virginia legislature made UV threaten to kill the deal unless VaTech got invited, so Cuse was out.
The deal made geographic sense for Miami, but it was a major breach of faith. It also made sense for VaTech. To this day, I still cannot understand how the move helped BC, or would have helped Syracuse. Of course, the league change also resulted the terrible bitterness between BC and UConn, exacerbated when the Attorney General of Connecticut (now US Senator Richard Blumenthal) sued BC. There are those who believe that BC has now claimed an ACC exclusive in New England, which will helped keep UConn out of the ACC. (Of course, the ACC football schools – primarily FSU and Clemson – went nuts over the idea of adding another mostly basketball school)
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The Big Ten wanted to conquer the New York City market, and that’s what they’re trying to do. Also they’ve always had it out for Texas and love Texas. With LHN lagging still, I could see the Big Ten offering the 5-game scheduling agreement with Texas and have them as a member in all sports except football. Let Texas go independent and put their games on LHN.
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Bob. Too much Ganga weed.
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Not the Big Ten’s style, Bob. If it were, the conference would have offered a similar plan to Notre Dame.
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Bob, that will never happen! Didn’t do it for Notre Dame why would they do it with Texas?
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Ouch! Yet another top 20 nationally-ranked player out of Illinois leaves the state & BIG altogether. To some degree this makes sense: Brunson has Philly roots: http://247sports.com/Player/Jalen-Brunson-23594
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The ones from the non-hood suburbs hurt. As for City recruiting, there was always a belief that parents, apart from taking the best “deal”, also wanted their sons to be much farther than 120 miles away from the bad people in their South Side/West Side neighborhoods. When Illinois loses its lifelines into Warren (Gurnee – the mid 80s TF South of the north suburbs), Simeon, and the Peoria system, its ovah.
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Non-hood suburbs? 120 miles away from the bad people in “their south side/west side neighborhoods?” I find your post to be obnoxious, filled with some BIG assumptions.
Please explain further…
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1. Mr. Brunson attends Stevenson High School, Lincolnshire, Lake County, IL easily one of the top ten richer districts in the region as well as a stalwart academic school (#5 Illinois, U.S. News and World Reports 2014 Best High Schools Ranking).
2. I attended and graduated U of I – Champaign in the early to mid 1990s; at least for non-athlete persons of color, it was often challenging for some to keep their friends visiting from out of town out of trouble. From the 1970s through about the mid-1990s, there were a lot of programs Presidents Award, Bridge) aimed at ratcheting up the numbers of disadvantaged minorities at UIUC. A big unintended consequence was that C-U would be a spot for Chicago thugs and wannabes to party – this is a knock on those who visited the campus on weekends, not on those who were enrolled. While a D-1 athlete may be more regimented and have the sense not to hang with bad influences from back home, I think many of their parents would rather they be further than just a two-hour drive from those influences.
3. The subject of this reply, because of answer #1 may not have as acute a need to be sheltered away from those mentioned in answer #2. He seems like the polar opposite of another supposed basketball savior from the north suburbs, Jereme Richmond.
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I think Urbanleftbehind is certainly onto something. Chicago is one of many genuinely stressed urbanized areas of the BIG footprint where Black American culture struggles – well beyond a sports topic – this is nothing new in the world of everyday sobering news vis-a-vis education, economics, politics, family social issues, penal system matters. I think its admirable parents want to see their children start anew and break from viscous cycles. On the other hand, I’m a big proponent of thinking & acting locally then globally not “thinking locally and acting globally” – the problem with that mantra is you can’t even begin to understand the bigger picture unless you grasp the subtleties of your everyday, intimate surroundings. I’d never want my daughter stepping beyond the local if she’s yet to learn the fundamental basics of her very own neighborhood. Lesson learned on my end, I was often an ethnocentric snob when I lived and worked abroad. I certainly had to bite my tongue when I lived in the South as well.
It seems like a lot of cities in the Rust Belt proper as well as new ones in the BIG footprint, Baltimore, Newark & NYC Jersey communities are consistently amongst the bottom tier of various metrics for livability in relation to Black Americans. There is a higher misery index in these communities than much of the other ones around the country. But don’t misconstrue me here, plenty of distressed Black communities beyond the BIG footprint. Brunson will be quite near Philly, which has plenty of issues. He’ll also have games near and in Chicago via the BIG East schedule. But as I said, Brunson is honoring his father’s legacy somewhat – who is a native of Philly. Nonetheless, there is an established norm of Chicago talent leaving the state on an annual basis.
These are complex matters & I don’t claim to have answers but in my field they often come up in urban regional planning – esp community, social justice and economic planning matters. Many of my peers, me included, absolutely do research along racial-ethnic lines and “The Great Migration” is a legacy for the North that is filled with deep, difficult issues that remain unsolved ,esp with planning.
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http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chicago/shootings
I think this map explains what he’s talking about. Like all cities, some neighborhoods are much more dangerous than others.
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I have read your responses and will comment later. My twins have been puking all night. I appreciate your willingness to engage in a rather difficult subject…
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http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=29700&ATCLID=209640788
The University of Maryland and Under Armour, Inc. today announced a 10-year partnership extension that designates Under Armour as the official outfitter of its varsity intercollegiate athletic programs.
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Bombshell: Conspiracy Theory to be Heard by Court!
http://www.centredaily.com/2014/09/11/4349175_court-paternos-can-challenge-consent.html
Many of the judge’s words in this ruling would be quite interesting, if most of them weren’t meaningless …
co.centre.pa.us/centreco/media/upload/PATERNO%20VS%20NCAA%20OPINION%20AND%20ORDER%209%2010%2014.pdf
tl;dr Consent decree can be challenged; attorney-client privilege doesn’t generally apply to Freeh; discovery to proceed.
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Rutgers Versus Penn State Ticket Prices Suggest New Regional Rivalry
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jesselawrence/2014/09/09/rutgers-penn-state-ticket-prices-suggest-emergence-of-a-new-regional-rivalry/
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Rutgers will have to hold up their end of it or it will just be a chance for NYC area Penn State fans to have a shorter drive to a game once per year.
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No, once every other year.
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Big Ten eyes new Midwest locales for 2018 basketball tournament
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/chi-jim-delany-big-ten-basketball-20140911-story.html
The off-and-on courtship between the Big Ten and Madison Square Garden is back on, as the league ponders where to hold its 2018 men’s basketball tournament.
“We were talking, then we weren’t talking,” Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said. “Now we’re looking at it again.”
But Delany has a backup plan. Or several backup plans, to be precise.
Delany told the Tribune that if the tournament does not go to the Big Apple, strong possibilities to host include Omaha, Minneapolis and Detroit.
As many have speculated, the Big East is not going to let go of that spot easily, plus moving up the dates for the Big Ten tourney presents its own complications.
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http://www.csnwashington.com/blog/virginia-tech-talk/hokies-were-strongest-candidate-sec-expansion-2012
In an interview with Greg Burton on his radio show Hardly Workin’ on ESPN950, Paul Finebaum of the SEC Network discussed how serious a candidate the Hokies were to join the football-crazy conference.
“Virginia Tech I think was probably the strongest candidate,” said Finebaum.
Nothing like fanning the flames while football season is on.
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The SEC leaders disagreed.
Mizzou is AAU. VaTech is not. Florida, Vandy, and A&M in particular are said to have found this to be very important.
Mizzou is the flagship school in a state of 6.1M. VaTech is not a flagship.
Mizzou has a decently strong basketball tradition. VaTech has one of the weakest basketball traditions in the Big 5.
And Mizzou isn’t that far off from VaTech in terms of football.
Virginia Tech 26 bowl games, 8 Cotton or better.
Mizzou 30 bowl games, 10 Cotton or better.
Over the last 8 years Virginia Tech has 68 wins, Missouri has 65 wins.
In terms of pure southernnness, yes, Blacksburg is farther south than Columbia, MO, so there’s that.
But I suppose the real reason Finebaum decided to bring it up is that VaTech just beat the wounded Buckeyes. Nevermind that Missouri won the SEC East last year and is ranked abou the same as the Hokies in the polls right now.
But Finebaum is a professional troll so I’m sure he’s just trying to rile people up.
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VT was sending signals in public they weren’t interested in 2011, so Missouri might have been a fallback. In any event, this article mentions 2012, not 2011 when the SEC expanded to 14.
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VT may have sent those signals because they knew they weren’t getting the invite anyway.
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That was before even A&M left.
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So?
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Just like that VT goes from one end of the upset spectrum to the other. ACC and VT do BIG, esp OSU any favors. It will be a shame to see OSU win the conference this year – the public ridicule will be endless.
So the declining BIG arguments continue:
Indiana loses to Bowling Green, yet another loss to the MAC.
Minnesota is getting owned, and I mean owned by TCU.
Illinois is getting whipped, and I mean whipped by Washington.
Md loses a close one to WVa, but they were at home.
Michigan is struggling mightily with Miami.
If I wasn’t a BIG fan, I’d be licking my chops at any super division proposal where BIG teams make the cut. Undeserving. Lawsuits galore. But hey, put a BIG team on your schedule, work on your issues while succeeding at the same time.
Over the next decade, the BIG is in deep trouble on the football end. The money won’t matter. Coaching, recruits, footprint culture can’t be purchased and changed at the prep level without a serious, serious plan.
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Iowa called time out on a last second missed field goal; Iowa State made the retry to win.
Michigan did manage to win by 24 points after wearing down Miami (OH).
So the BIG goes 2-6 (Purdue has no chance against Notre Dame) in out of conference play with both wins against MAC teams. B1G goes 0-5 against other P5 teams. Nebraska at Fresno State will be played tonight and should be another B1G win against a Go5 team.
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“Over the next decade, the BIG is in deep trouble on the football end. The money won’t matter. Coaching, recruits, footprint culture can’t be purchased and changed at the prep level without a serious, serious plan.”
Money always matters. The Big Ten schools will just have to be more aggressive, Machiavellian like, with it. To quote Mike Ehrmantraut from Breaking Bad : “No more half measures.”
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If Big Ten schools have to spend the ridiculous amount of money on coaching staffs that Alabama and Auburn choose to do, I’m not certain it’s worth it. Let SEC schools pervert their priorities.
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They could start by hiring new coaches that know how to recruit and have ties to hotbed states like FL or TX. MAC coaches don’t have that background and it shows.
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I think many of the athletic directors and other person involved with athletics have been unprepared for the changes happening in football elsewhere. To me, they should have started the process of slowing down the number of MACrifice games years earlier. Now even the MAC is making inroads on whatever talent is still in the area.
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So I guess the ACC still sucks, but not as much as the Big Ten. In ACC country that is called progress.
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Michael in Raleigh,
Upside is higher in the ACC. It’s called talent base – so simple to understand. GT, FSU, Clemson, NC, Va, VT, Duke, WF, NCSt sit in states that have better high school football than all but Ohio in the BIG – but Ohio is only on par with some of these states, and in some years not as productive. Florida and Georgia have produced noticeably more talent than Ohio for many years now.
ACC had two nice wins yesterday. BC beat a USC team that’s certainly regaining form. USC hasn’t lost to a BIG team in a long, long time. Duke destroyed Kansas. It was only 5 or 6 years ago Kansas beat VT in a BCS game. So the gap between the ACC and Big12’s bottom dwellers looks pretty wide. Think on Md beat NCSt last year, Terps didn’t much talent and certainly kept as much intact as the Wolfpack, But look at who was better able to reload. I mean NCSt smashed USF, Md barely beat them. Surprisingly, Syracuse had no problem with C. Michigan, yet Purdue couldn’t stay within 2 tds with this MAC power : ). ACC is on a definite upswing.
BIG is in bad shape and fans needs to start eating crow and demanding better from the schools they root for – culture change – as well as change from their local high schools. It’s the only way.
The BIG looks to be won by a western team this year, either Wisky or Neb.
The conference is down to one last hope for a playoff spot, the only one I can think of:
LSU runs the SEC table
Wisky runs the BIG table
If the above happens, Wisky’s chances for a playoff spot are certainly valid. But they’ll need further help from other P5 conferences.
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One takeaway from Saturday. North Dakota St. may be the best team in the upper Midwest.
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I agree – something special going on in Fargo.
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ACC has a much better recruiting footprint but less tradition, less money, and care less about football than the top half of the BIG. The BIG looks real bad now but let’s not get crazy. A prospect choosing between NC state and Ohio State is going to choose Ohio State. Georgia Tech resides in prime recruiting territory but would lose head to head for recruits to the top big ten teams all the time. What makes the SEC so strong is the recruiting footprint combined with football being a priority. Football is a distance 2nd for the majority of ACC schools.
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“Not crazy” – history doesn’t lie. Look at the numbers that matter most.
I will say the BIG’s big boys always have a chance to resurface: PSU, OSU, Mi, and even Neb. MSU and Wisky are generally competitive, but the latter hasn’t won a big OOC game in a while – 3 Rose Bowl losses, LSU, ASU (last year). Badgers are also 1-6 in bowl games since 07.
Footprint, hs football, cold weather = huge odds at this point.
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“ACC had two nice wins yesterday.”
Yes, they did.
“BC beat a USC team that’s certainly regaining form.”
USC didn’t even show up for the game.
“USC hasn’t lost to a BIG team in a long, long time.”
They haven’t played a decent B10 team since 2009 and have only played 4 regular season games against the B10 this millennium (9 total). It’s hard to lose games that aren’t being played. Yesterday’s USC team isn’t Pete Carroll’s USC (he was the coach in 2009 and for 7 of the 9 games), either. Not many teams beat Carroll’s USC teams.
“Duke destroyed Kansas.”
Kansas is terrible and Duke isn’t.
“It was only 5 or 6 years ago Kansas beat VT in a BCS game.”
So? Nobody is left from that team for KU. They are 10-40 since Mangino was fired. Charlie Weis is 5-21 there.
“So the gap between the ACC and Big12’s bottom dwellers looks pretty wide.”
Who says Duke is an ACC bottom dweller in 2014? Most experts picked them in the top 3 of their division. WF is the team most comparable to KU now.
“Think on Md beat NCSt last year, Terps didn’t much talent and certainly kept as much intact as the Wolfpack, But look at who was better able to reload. I mean NCSt smashed USF, Md barely beat them. Surprisingly, Syracuse had no problem with C. Michigan, yet Purdue couldn’t stay within 2 tds with this MAC power : ).”
You read way, way too much into individual game scores. The transitive property never has applied in football. Teams are different every week. #11 ND only beat PU by two scores. UMD hung with WV, and WV gave #3 AL fits in week 1. By your logic, Syracuse is better than ND and UMD would hang with AL. Three weeks into the season, we have very little idea how good individual teams actually are.
“ACC is on a definite upswing.”
Hopefully so, and good for them. Here’s hoping they sweep their SEC rivals this year.
“BIG is in bad shape”
It looks like that for now. Maybe it’ll look a little different by the end of the year. MSU isn’t terrible, certainly. Some other teams will improve.
“fans needs to start … demanding better from the schools they root for”
Why? Maybe some fans are basically OK with how their teams have done lately. It is, after all, just a game and not the primary function of a university.
“as well as change from their local high schools.”
Right. Because high schools are renowned for listening to random CFB fans.
“It’s the only way.”
There’s never only 1 way.
“The BIG looks to be won by a western team this year, either Wisky or Neb.”
Why would a sane person think that? Because MSU lost at OR? NE barely beat McNeese State and they look much better than MSU? WI doesn’t have a passing game and they look much better than MSU?
“The conference is down to one last hope for a playoff spot, the only one I can think of:”
There are 9-10 games left for everyone. All the top teams could end up with 2 losses for all you know.
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You can’t justify it anymore Brian, it makes you look crazy. 1.5 NCs since 70, actual membership. Losing bowl record, Rose Bowl performance in this span = poor.
The Bucks lost to VT at home – enough said.
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Justify what? Pointing out the leaps of logic and other flaws in your arguments or claiming MSU isn’t terrible?
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The Big Ten still gets the benefit of the doubt that the ACC can’t touch. The Big Ten has gone 1-9 vs. P5 teams, yet has 4 top 25 teams. The ACC has done much better, with VT having the same record as ohio State and a road victory over the Buckeyes, yet OSU is ranked and VT isn’t. The ACC has only two ranked teams to the Big Ten’s four. Nothing seems like it will make the AcC better than the big Ten in the eyes of voters. But i say the ACC still sucks but not as badly as the Big Ten sucks, no matter what voters say.
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Michael in Raleigh,
“The Big Ten still gets the benefit of the doubt that the ACC can’t touch. The Big Ten has gone 1-9 vs. P5 teams,”
1-10 if you include ND, I believe.
“yet has 4 top 25 teams.”
You have to take that sort of thing on a case by case basis.
#11 MSU played #2 OR tough at Autzen before losing, including leading by 9 before OR pulled away in the second half. Do they not deserve to be ranked because they are 0-1 versus the P5?
A similar case can be made for #19 WI, playing #8 LSU tough in Dallas before blowing a 4th quarter lead. Should they not be ranked for being 0-1?
“The ACC has done much better, with VT having the same record as ohio State and a road victory over the Buckeyes, yet OSU is ranked and VT isn’t.”
OSU just won a game 66-0 while VT just lost at home to ECU. That affects the polls. VT will climb with a few wins.
As for the ACC doing better, what do wins by other ACC teams have to do with where to rank any individual team? FSU’s win over OkSU doesn’t make WF any better.
“The ACC has only two ranked teams to the Big Ten’s four. Nothing seems like it will make the AcC better than the big Ten in the eyes of voters. But i say the ACC still sucks but not as badly as the Big Ten sucks, no matter what voters say.”
#23 OSU and #24 NE are barely ranked and the bottom 5 of the polls are always a crap shoot, especially this early. The ACC has 3 of the first 4 out. That’s essentially a tie, since cutting off at 25 is arbitrary. Is brand name a factor here? Of course. It always has been in the polls. But I think it’s more about the schools involved (OSU and NE vs UNC, Duke and VT) than the conferences. Let’s wait a few weeks until more data points are available before worrying about the polls.
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Media is getting into this “power conference” thing, as if playing Washington St., Kansas, Indiana, Vanderbilt or Wake Forest means you are playing a tougher schedule than playing Boise St., Northern Illinois, East Carolina, Marshall or even North Dakota St.
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Duke did win their division in the ACC last year before losing to FSU in the ccg. And they are #26 in the latest coach’s poll.
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Shhh. Facts that don’t fit his narrative (and there are a lot of them) aren’t allowed.
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Week 3 and the undefeated ranks in the Big 5 carnage continues!
ACC —- 7 of 14 or 50.00% remain
Atlantic : NC State 3-0 + Florida State and Syracuse 2-0 // 3 of 7
Costal : Pittsburgh, Georgia Tech, and Duke 3-0 + UNC 2-0 // 4 of 7
GT @ VT / IA @ Pitt / MD @ SU / TU @ Duke / UNC @ ECU / Pres @ NC ST / CU @ FSU
B12 —- 4 of 10 or 40.00% remain
Baylor and Oklahoma 3-0 + Kansas State and TCU
Auburn @ Kansas State / Oklahoma @ West Virginia
B1G —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
East : Penn State (3-0, 1-0) // 1 of 7
West : Nebraska (3-0, 0-0) // 1 of 7
Massachusetts (0-3, 0-1) @ Penn State // Miami – FL (2-1, 0-1) @ Nebraska
PAC —- 8 of 12 or 66.67% remain
North : Oregon and Washington all 3-0 + California and Oregon State all 2-0 // 4 of 6
South : Arizona, Arizona State, and UCLA all 3-0 + Utah 2-0 / 4 of 6
UT @ MU / GA State @ UW / Cal @ Arizona / Oregon @ WSU / SDSU @ Oregon State
SEC —- 8 of 14 or 57.14% remain
East : Missouri 3-0 + Florida 2-0 // 2 of 7
West : LSU, BAMU, TAMU, OM and MSU all 3-0 + Auburn 2-0 // 6 of 7
.
…
.
non Big 5 :
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain or 00.00%
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
AAC : Cincinnati is 1-0 // 1 of 11 remain or 9.09%
CUSA : Marshall is 3-0 // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Brigham Young and Notre Dame are 3-0 // 2 of 4 or 50.00%
MAC : Northern Illinois 3-0 // 2 of 13 remain or 7.69%
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And the Big 12 is still playing weak schedules. Had Iowa, Minnesota and Maryland scheduled this past weekend.
(Couldn’t resist Duffman!).
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So it is your theory that rather than schedule top MAC schools, schedule mid and lower level B1G schools, have easier games, and be able to claim that they are P5 schools. Interesting analysis and you may be right. .
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Goes along with scheduling both an FCS school and a school that was an FCS school sometime in the past five years, to get around the cap of only one FCS school allowed. I sure there are SEC schools playing that particular game, and I wouldn’t be surprised if a few Big12 are doing so as well.
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Not this year. There are 8 B12 teams playing FCS schools. Only 1, Oklahoma St. is playing a recent FCS school-UTSA-and UTSA is one of the favorites in CUSA this year-already having a win over Houston and a 3 point loss to Arizona.
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I only noticed it last year, when it was a few in the Big12 … and then I looked and it was more in the SEC. So I had no idea whether it was a fluke or a plan, and I guess it may have just been one of those odd coincidences … in the SEC, Bama doesn’t strictly qualify, since while FAU may have been playing like an FCS school within the past five years, they jumped up around 2005. Nor do the Gators, though scheduling both Idaho and EMU to start the season in addition to an FCS school might be thought by some to be the moral equivalent.
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Things change over time. Some Big 12 schools have picked it up but some like Baylor still give the Big 12 a bad rep. With Mack gone it will be interesting to see if Texas goes back to their long term history of scheduling better. If you noticed it has been at least 2 – 3 seasons now where I have not been calling out the Big 12 like I was in say 2009 and 2010. I still think Oklahoma is the best scheduler in the Big 12 and that has not changed through this whole blog.
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The Amway Coaches’ poll is out.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/polls/
By Conference:
SEC (8): #2 Bama, #5 Auburn, #7 A&M, #8 LSU, #12 Ole Miss, #14 Georgia, #16 South Carolina, #19 Mizzou
Pac-12 (5): #3 Oregon, #10 UCLA, #13 Arizona State, #15 Stanford, #21 USC
B1G (4): #11 Michigan State, #17 Wisconsin, #18 Ohio State, #22 Nebraska
ACC (3): #1 Florida State, #24 Clemson, #25 North Carolina
Big-12 (3): #4 Oklahoma, #6 Baylor, #20 K-State
Ind (2): #9 Notre Dame, #23 BYU
Looking ahead to next weekend, two games feature ranked teams.
#5 Auburn at #20 K-State on Thursday 9/18
#24 Clemson at #1 Florida State
There are a few games featuring a ranked team and a credible (P5 or good Go5) opponent.
Florida at #2 Alabama
Virginia at #23 BYU
#25 North Carolina at East Carolina
Indiana at #19 Mizzou
Miss State at #8 LSU
#4 Oklahoma at West Virginia
#16 South Carolina at Vandy
#3 Oregon at Washington State
The B1G has a few more OOC games in which to distinguish themselves.
Iowa at Pitt
Maryland at Syracuse
Utah at Michigan
Indiana at #19 Mizzou
Miami at Nebraska
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Polls are set up nicely for the SEC West. At this point 5 of the top 12 are in the SEC West, so a single loss isn’t got to be perceived as bad and wins will be perceived as very good. Also MS St. is #27 and Arkansas is receiving some votes.
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lol….”perveived as good”.
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Alan from Baton Rouge,
“SEC (8): #2 Bama, #5 Auburn, #7 A&M, #8 LSU, #12 Ole Miss, #14 Georgia, #16 South Carolina, #19 Mizzou”
I’m a little surprised SC isn’t ahead of UGA. LSU also seems a touch high compared to WI. I think MS is too high, but will know for sure in 2 or 3 weeks.
“Pac-12 (5): #3 Oregon, #10 UCLA, #13 Arizona State, #15 Stanford, #21 USC”
I’d have OR at #2, personally. UCLA and ASU both suffered QB injuries yesterday so they may drop in the next few weeks if those guys don’t come back. USC is hard to predict.
“B1G (4): #11 Michigan State, #17 Wisconsin, #18 Ohio State, #22 Nebraska”
Our reputation is hurting us. I think MSU is better than #11, but they’re the top team with a loss and had a bye so I can’t complain. I think WI should be a touch higher if LSU is #8. NE might be a bit low, but not many people stayed up to see them crush Fresno.
“ACC (3): #1 Florida State, #24 Clemson, #25 North Carolina”
I don’t see why UNC outranks some other teams, but it’s hard to quibble about #25.
“Big-12 (3): #4 Oklahoma, #6 Baylor, #20 K-State”
Baylor hasn’t played anybody so they’re hard to rank. KSU struggled with ISU, so they’re probably too high. Auburn may well expose them this week.
“Looking ahead to next weekend, two games feature ranked teams.
#5 Auburn at #20 K-State on Thursday 9/18
#24 Clemson at #1 Florida State”
Those both might get ugly. On the other hand, both could be tight games.
“There are a few games featuring a ranked team and a credible (P5 or good Go5) opponent.
Florida at #2 Alabama”
AL will crush them.
“Virginia at #23 BYU”
BYU wins easily.
“Indiana at #19 Mizzou”
MO should get 450 yards passing at least.
“Miss State at #8 LSU”
LSU should roll.
“#4 Oklahoma at West Virginia”
WV gave AL fits, but that was week 1.
“#16 South Carolina at Vandy”
Vandy is horrible.
“#3 Oregon at Washington State”
OR by 40+.
“The B1G has a few more OOC games in which to distinguish themselves.”
Yeah, right.
“Iowa at Pitt”
IA will bounce back from the loss.
“Maryland at Syracuse”
“Utah at Michigan”
MI will win at home, but it won’t be pretty.
“Indiana at #19 Mizzou”
IN might as well not waste the money on the trip.
“Miami at Nebraska”
Miami looked terrible against UL, so I think NE wins at home.
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The SEC West appears to be tougher than usual this year with Ole Miss, Miss State, and Arkansas all stepping up and A&M not falling off the tracks. At the end of the season, the SEC West will have some very good teams with four, five , or six losses.
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Maybe they should swap with the East for a few teams.
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It is also home to the weak out of conference schedule with 3 of the 7 not playing a single team from a power 5 conference.
“They heart cupcakes
There are 65 members of the so-called Power Five conferences — the ACC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 and SEC. Of those 65, just 11 of them do not play another member of that elite Group of Five. Not so unexpectedly, the SEC is the conference with the most at four (Mississippi State, Ole Miss, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt). That league was followed by the Pac-12 (Arizona, Colorado, Oregon State) and ACC (North Carolina State, Wake Forest). That leaves the Big Ten (Penn State) and the Big 12 (Baylor) with just one apiece.”
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/09/14/the-fifth-quarter-week-3-rewind-4/
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There are extenuating circumstances in some of those … the reason Vandy and Wake Forest are not playing a P5 school this year is that SEC scheduling of the Vols game against Vandy broke up the Vandy/WFU contract to play each other.
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I’d remind also that the PAC and B12 teams without a P5 OOC are still playing as many P5 opponents as the other 8 conference game playing schools who have one OOC.
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The most recent F+ rankings are kind of scary (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus):
Alabama #3; Ole Miss #6; Auburn #7; A&M #9; LSU #10; MSU #17; Arkansas #44.
All 8 of Arkansas’ SEC opponents are in the top 17 in the nation.
Surely some teams will fall down as others rise as conference play picks up. But this is going to be an entertaining year.
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m(Ag), the UGA/Carolina game was an instant classic. Later that night, when your guys and my guys were going through the motions, Kentucky and Florida played a thriller. I think the Cats got screwed on the no-call for delay of game in the 1st overtime. I doubt anybody will be talking about the SEC’s lack of depth this year, as the 13th best team in the conference hung in with the #4 team in the country.
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Or perhaps Florida is overrated.
College football as currently constructed is full of too much bias and the SEC due to the performance of its top brands in championship games gets way too much benefit of the doubt. I am not talking about Alabama and LSU who make it a point to schedule tough out of conference matchups and are deserving of their rankings but the rest seems to use the “best conference in the world” argument and schedule cupcakes and still get ranked high such as the Mississippi schools and now Texas A&M. Florida does have a tough out of conference game against FSU every year same with South Carolina and Clemson but look at Georgia’s run to the SEC championship game and a top 5 ranking. They played only 3 teams that finished above .500 that year and was 2-1 with one of the wins coming against Vanderbilt. Not exactly a murders row of a schedule but since it was the SEC, it must have been tough. Having a top 10 preseason ranking certainly helps.
Rankings shouldn’t come out until midseason but that won’t happen since TV uses early rankings to sell games as being nationally important early on before anybody knows who is good and who isn’t. And SEC thru ESPN is the biggest abuser of the preseason ranking system to make games seem way more important than they really are.
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PSUHockey – I didn’t write anything about Florida being over or underrated. I think that Florida is a 7 or 8 win team this year, though. Last year, Kentucky was the 13th best team in the SEC, but I will say that they are vastly improved. Arkansas was the worst team in the SEC last year and they destroyed Texas Tech last week. Texas Tech is a mid tier B-12 team that won its bowl game last year against a ranked Arizona State team. Tennessee was the 12th best team in the SEC last year and they hung in there with #4 Oklahoma. In OOC battles of ranked teams, LSU beat Wisconsin, and Georgia beat Clemson.
My original point was that the bottom part of the SEC, other than Vandy, is pretty good, as evidenced last weekend with the Arky/T-Tech and Tenn/OK games.
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The bottom of the SEC is improved. The last few years the bottom had been weaker than usual. Kentucky, Tennessee and Arkansas have all been bad. Florida was bad last year. Vandy had one good year in the last few. Missouri was good last year but awful the year before that. Mississippi St. has struggled a lot recently. The top of the SEC has had an easy road through the bottom half in recent years. Seems like that will change this year. Vandy is the only one who looks really weak. Kentucky looks MUCH better than they have since Brooks retired.
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Texas Tech is a mid-tier Big 12 program, but this year their team has been predicted to finish near the bottom.
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bullet – here are the facts for the last 5 seasons for all SEC teams with losing records.
2013 – Kentucky (2-10), Arkansas (3-9), Florida (4-8), Tennessee (5-7)
2012 – Kentucky (2-10), Auburn (3-9), Arkansas (4-8), Tennessee (5-7), Mizzou (5-7)
2011 – Ole Miss (2-10), Kentucky (5-7), Tennessee (5-7), Vandy (6-7)*
2010 – Vandy (2-10), Ole Miss (4-8), Kentucky (6-7)*, Tennessee (6-7)*, Georgia (6-7)*
2009 – Vandy (2-10), Miss State (5-7)
* bowl eligible but lost bowl game
Alabama, LSU, South Carolina and A&M (13 & 12 only) didn’t have any losing seasons over the last five years.
Kentucky has been bad with losing seasons for the last four years.
Tennessee has been mediocre over the last three years.
Vandy had back-to-back nine win seasons and went bowling three out of five years.
Ole Miss had two losing seasons out of the last five.
Georgia, Auburn, and Mizzou (13 & 12 only) had only losing season out of five and Georgia lost its bowl game giving it a losing season in 2010.
Miss State has had winning seasons over the last four years.
The only constants have been Kentucky and Tennessee.
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Kentucky has been non-competitive the last few years.
Arkansas has been non-competitive the last two years.
Tennessee hadn’t beaten any of the top teams for several years or been particularly competitive until last year.
Florida was bad last year.
Auburn was bad enough the year before that they got Chizek fired 2 years after an MNC.
Having a .500 record by beating The Citadel, Kent St., ULM and Idaho while going 2-6 in conference by beating Kentucky and Arkansas doesn’t mean you aren’t bad.
I think last year was the first time in 2 or 3 years that the bottom 6 didn’t go winless against the top 6. The bottom 6 wasn’t necessarily the same 6 each year.
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” Missouri was good last year but awful the year before that”
That’s not true. Missouri in 2012 was a team with a very rough schedule with a large number of injuries. In non-conference, it had games against bowl-bound Arizona State, UCF (a year before it’s Fiesta Bowl Win), & Syracuse, while in cross-divisional play it had games against Alabama and A&M, who finished #1 & #5 in the nation.
Despite all the injuries and the schedule, Missouri still would have made a bowl game if it hadn’t suspended star Sheldon Richardson for academics for the Syracuse game (the 2nd-to-last game of the season). Missouri almost won that game without him, but gave up a bunch of points in the last quarter without their star defensive lineman. Missouri finished 3-1 against a very solid non-conference schedule, but only 2-6 against SEC foes.
Still, all those injuries gave a lot of young players a chance to play against top competition. The experience they gained certainly helped in 2013, when they won the East.
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Having injuries doesn’t mean you aren’t bad. You could have a Heisman trophy QB with no one behind him and turn a good team into a bad one when you lose him. Missouri lost by 21 to UGA, 21 to SC, 32 to AL and 30 to A&M. They did play Florida close-7, but Florida had no offense that year (FL also beat ULL by 7). They only beat TN (in OT) and UK in conference. TN only beat UK and gave up 37 points to every conference team but UK. UK didn’t beat anyone in conference.
Injuries may explain why you are bad (and we heard that non-stop from Andy last year how Mizzou lost their entire starting OL), but it still means you aren’t competitive with the top teams, once they are out. Mizzou clearly had talent when healthy as they showed last year, but they faded badly the year before that by the time conference play got going.
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oh for crying out loud, bullet, don’t be an idiot. Mizzou has been to 9 bowls in the last 11 years. They’re top 10 in the nation in wins since 2007. 4 division titles over that period. Two top 5 finishes nationally. They had an off year because they lost 7 or 8 starters to injury and played literally the #1 SOS in the country. I’m surprised you didn’t break your back reaching to try to prove that Mizzou sucks at football. I guess you’re still butthurt after Mizzou whooped up on your horns in all sports as they walked out of the Big 12 for greener pastures.
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A&M beat Big 12 co-champion Oklahoma by 28 that year. Alabama beat undefeated-in-the-regular season Notre Dame by 28 as well.
Despite all the injuries, I think Missouri would have safely made a bowl in any other conference that year. They weren’t a great team, but they were still decent.
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You two seem to miss the point.
I’ve been following the SEC for decades and I never remember a dichotomy between the top half and the bottom half like the last 5 years. Its made it easy for the top half (especially #5 or #6) to rack up 4 or 5 wins. Typically there’s a continuum from the top to bottom. Now that bottom half hasn’t been the same half dozen teams every year.
In that year Missouri was getting stomped by everyone but really bad teams once their injuries kicked in. They beat UK and Tennessee, but those were the worst teams at Tennessee since the 80s and the worst UK team since at least the 90s. So when the SEC powers played Missouri, it was an easy win. Its hard to argue beating those UK and Tennessee teams while losing to the top teams by 30 meant they would be in a bowl in another conference. Kentucky couldn’t even beat Western Kentucky of the Sun Belt that year. Kentucky might not have even been the 3rd best team in Kentucky that year.
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As for individual bowl games, that year Florida, who played a killer schedule and only lost one game, got dominated by Louisville. LSU lost to Clemson. Georgia struggled against a mediocre Nebraska team. So that’s only 2 big wins to go with the losses so that is not a pattern. Missouri lost by over 30 against 4 of the 5 top SEC teams they played. That is a pattern. UK lost to Georgia by 5, MSU by 13 and every other SEC opponent by over 20. The latter is a pattern, not the 5 point loss to UGA.
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You might have had a point if you didn’t use the word ‘awful’.
Against a very difficult schedule, Missouri finished 1-win away from bowl eligibility. That’s not awful. Awful is what Colorado, Kansas, and Illinois were that year. If you want SEC teams, Auburn & Kentucky were truly awful that year.
Sure they weren’t on the level of the top teams of the league. But even if all the same injuries happened, it’s not hard to see them picking up another win with a different conference schedule.
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@bullet,
You could lift the top 5 or 6 SEC teams the last two years and drop them in the B12, and they would run the table. The SEC schedule is much more challenging and even the “bottom dwellers” in the SEC can handle the mid tier of the B12. I know the spin from shaggybevo has been driven deep into your thought patterns but to suggest the SEC top tier has the easier road than the B12 is laughable.
Bottom dweller Ark just destroyed Tech in a road win
Ole Miss did the same to Texas last year
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@psuhockey your “and now Texas A&M” comment needs some context. A&M’s move to the SEC shifted the long-term (contracted to play through 2024) A&M vs. Ark game from an OOC game to a conference game. Finding a P5 team who could schedule a home-and-home series proved to be difficult especially given the SECs delay in releasing the conference schedule a few years ago.
A&M has Arizona State, Oregon and UCLA on the schedule over the next six years and has a past history of playing BCS, or now P5, teams in OOC games.
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FrankTheAg,
I don’t have a dog in the larger argument you two are having, but your exaggerations aren’t helping your cause.
“You could lift the top 5 or 6 SEC teams the last two years and drop them in the B12, and they would run the table.”
F/+ Rankings (top 25 teams):
2013:
SEC – 2, 4, 10, 14, 17, 22, 23
B12 – 7, 8, 20, 24
I don’t see why #17 or 22 would be expected to run the table in the B12. They’d be significant underdogs in 2 games and playing a peer in 2 others.
2012:
SEC – 1, 3, 4, 6, 10, 13
B12 – 8, 9, 12, 24
I don’t see why #10 or 13 would be expected to run the table in the B12. They’d play a peer in 3 games.
If all you meant was that the best SEC teams were better than the best B12 teams, then I think everyone agrees with you. But not that many teams in the SEC were better than all the B12 teams.
“The SEC schedule is much more challenging and even the “bottom dwellers” in the SEC can handle the mid tier of the B12.”
2012:
SEC’s bottom – 112, 105, 62, 60, 58, 57, 50, 40
The 6th B12 team was #31 TCU.
2013:
SEC’s bottom – 97, 87, 72, 50, 48
The 6th B12 team was #43 TT.
“Bottom dweller Ark just destroyed Tech in a road win”
It’s only been 3 weeks. We have a limited idea who the midpack and bottom dweller teams will be for this year.
Current F/+: 44. AR, 60. TT
Lower SEC teams – 64, 73, 91 (AR doesn’t look like a bottom dweller this year)
TT’s rank in the B12 – #8 of 10 (TT doesn’t look like a midpack team this year)
“Ole Miss did the same to Texas last year”
#28 Ole Miss beat #35 UT
That was midpack versus midpack. Ole Miss was #8 of 14 in the SEC while UT was #5 of 10 in the B12.
Neither of your examples were SEC bottom dweller versus midpack B12.
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Once Missouri’s injuries kicked in, they were pretty bad. Losing Franklin and pretty much the entire O line is a pretty big impact. Look at the Texas offense without David Ash who wasn’t nearly as good as Franklin and 3 offensive line starters (still not nearly as bad as USF and UConn-THAT was ugly offense). And after the injuries is when all the SEC teams got them except UGA.
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Here’s the AP Poll.
http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll/2014/4
By Conference
SEC (8): #3 Alabama, #5 Auburn, #6 A&M, #8 LSU, #10 Ole Miss, #13 Georgia, #14 South Carolina, #18 Mizzou
Pac-12 (5): #2 Oregon, #12 UCLA, #15 Arizona State, #16 Stanford, #17 USC
Big XII (4): #4 Oklahoma, #7 Baylor, #20 K-State, #25 OK State
B1G (4): #11 Michigan State, #19 Wisconsin, #23 Ohio State, #24 Nebraska
ACC (2): #1 Florida State, #22 Clemson
Ind (2): #9 Notre Dame, #21 BYU
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So Ohio St. is ranked higher than VT, Georgia is rated higher than South Carolina and Stanford is rated higher than USC. Also BYU destroyed Texas in Austin while UCLA needed a late TD to beat Texas in Arlington, yet BYU is way behind UCLA in the polls.
Think the polls are getting to be more and more of a beauty contest (they always have been, but it seems to be getting worse) and less and less rational. Pollsters more than ever seem to be sticking with their pre-conceived notions regardless of on the field results.
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To be fair to UCLA, their QB got hurt during the game. If he’s coming back healthy soon, UCLA should be better than they showed against UT.
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And UVA? And Memphis? The starter did almost zip in those games.
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I didn’t see either of those games, so I can’t provide any informed opinion. I see Hundley was still in many top 10 Heisman candidate lists before yesterday, though.
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“…but it seems to be getting worse)”
With no end in sight.
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On a brighter note, a lot of BIG alum at the starting QB spot in the NFL – some in place due to injuries – part of the game. I do think Henne’s days are numbered. He shouldn’t start, but he’s also got awful protection.
Michigan State has 3 alone: Cousins, Hoyer and Stanton. And all three won today. Hoyer beat Brees : ).
Cousins, I suspect, will be a special qb someday, but controversy will be constant as long as he’s in DC and Griffin is on the roster.
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Long term Big 12 thoughts below……
Assuming TX, OU, OSU, and TX Tech move to the Pac-12 once the Big 12’s GOR is set to expire, I think the current Big 12 members have an opportunity to add some programs and build a pretty solid conference that could stand on its own two legs and potentially generate enough TV revenue to keep the schools happy.
The remaining Big 12 schools would be Baylor, TCU, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU. I think the best strategy would be to add BYU to fill out a Western division, and then add some Eastern schools to give WVU some travel partners / potential rivals.
What do you think about this setup?
West:
Baylor
TCU
KSU
KU
ISU
BYU (good football and basketball, strong fan support)
East:
WVU
UCF (good football, growing school, access to Florida recruiting)
USF (good football, growing school, access to Florida recruiting)
Cincinnati (good football and basketball, access to Ohio recruiting)
UConn (great basketball, solid fan support, access to NE recruiting)
Memphis (great basketball, access to Memphis recruiting, makes sense geographically)
This league would provide some compelling football games, a chance for a pretty attractive conference championship game if the team that comes out of the East is good, and one hell of a basketball conference.
Thoughts?
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Interesting article-HBO thinking about becoming more like Netflix.
http://www.homemediatech.net/hbo-may-make-the-jump-from-cablesatellite-model-to-direct-to-consumer-model/558
…”The company, for a trial, has sold HBO with a thin basic cable plan that includes local channels and broadband Internet, which is found on Comcast and runs around $50 a month. If HBO has no Internet, it can’t succeed. And, once it starts getting past cable, it’s got two possible risks:
◦It could anger its partners who get $8 a month per subscriber and use the channel to encourage people to bundle cable TV.
◦It could have a pricing issue. If the company charges $10 a month, it would make more money per customer than currently, and angering DirecTV, Comcast and others.
Should HBO makes this move, it could lead to other channels following suit, unraveling the cable/satellite bundle and giving consumers a new option in attaining programming.”
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http://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2014/09/40485/some-solutions-for-fixing-big-ten-football
How to fix the B10. Basically, he makes 2 suggestions:
1. Spend more on support staff.
AL has 29 people on staff, OSU 24, IL 16. The bare minimum is 13 (1 HC, 9 assistants, 2 GAs, 1 S&C coach). Many of the support staff do video stuff to help with recruiting or scouting/self-scouting and don’t get paid much (under $40k), so adding some shouldn’t break the bank.
2. Recruit better.
Improve Chicago recruiting. Regain the ability to get the 2nd tier players out of OH. Hire better recruiters, including recruiting directors. Go the JUCO route more. Recruit CA more.
Basically, he’s saying the B10 needs to make football success a higher priority. I’m just not sure the schools want to do that.
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I have the distinct impression (gleaned from my alumni magazine) that my alma mater Purdue has made a conscious decision to deemphasize sports, that they want to be a public Ivy. Apparently other B1G schools have made the same decision, especially Indiana, Illinois and Minnesota.
There is nothing wrong with the Ivy style of collegiate athletics. In fact, it solves a lot of problems with unprepared and incapable students. But the games appear only on cable and satellite, and the student-athletes sit home during bowl season and watch the games.
It’s a lot easier to get tickets, good ones, to the games, too, Harvard-Yale being an exception.
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bob sykes,
“I have the distinct impression (gleaned from my alumni magazine) that my alma mater Purdue has made a conscious decision to deemphasize sports, that they want to be a public Ivy. Apparently other B1G schools have made the same decision, especially Indiana, Illinois and Minnesota.”
De-emphasize sports, or de-emphasize football? I don’t see IN reducing their commitment to hoops. I don’t see MN even backing off from football, they just aren’t that good at it right now. Certainly MN isn’t backing off in hockey.
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I will take a stab at this for Bob. I think Purdue, which is one of the lowest revenue generating ADs in the B1G with probably the smallest fanbase after NW, has made it an institutional priority to run the athletic department with zero debt and completely independent of the academic funding of the school. This is extremely unique. The only completely financially independent athletic departments are large mega-revenue schools. This approach means that the major funding comes from ticket revenue (very small at Purdue), the sports boosters (John Purdue Club), and the TV/Radio deal. The previous administration even would take portions of the BTN dollars for academic financial shortfalls. I also believe that the school charges every scholarship as out-of-state from the athletic department. This means several things…(1) only the minimal amount of scholarship sports, (2) very little funding outside donors for athletic facilities improvements, and (3) hard limits on how much we are willing to spend on coaches. I feel like we’ve finally at least gotten competitive (which in Purdue speak is mid of the pack) in FB and BB coaches salaries. Our non-revenue sports have gotten a lot of focus in the past 10 years and made really good strides, particularly in women’s sports. But, in the zero sum environment of our financial budgeting, an increase in one area frequently means a reduction (or no increase) in another. I’m not sure there’s another P5 school, particularly public, operating this way. And I am definitely in the minority of the Purdue sports fans who is philosophically OK with it. But it also means I have perhaps unrealistic goals in what I expect our FB and BB programs to be, and that is competitive year in and year out. That means in FB, going to a bowl 6 out of 10 years and competing for the division title 1-2 years. In BB it means a trip to the tournament 7-8 out of 10 years. Assuming we can keep the new TV dollars in the athletic department, that still seems attainable if we hire and recruit well. But we can’t afford a hire like Hope that takes 5-6 years to recover from. I spend as much time worrying about getting our Engineering department back in the Top 5 versus getting the FB team in the top 25. But I wouldn’t mind both…
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For Purdue, considering that a big chunk of their revenue in recent years has come from full-pay internationals and other OOS (who are drawn largely by the reputation of the engineering school and not the prowess of any Purdue sports team), concentrating on improving the reputation of their engineering school is probably far more important.
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I admire Purdue’s direction, but if that is the choice they need to leave the Big 10 and allow a school that wants to compete to take their place. A Big 10 school cannot be permitted to essentially give up at football and get to keep all of the cash.
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I think the massive increase in staffing just became possible in the last couple of years.
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I would think there would be some law of diminishing returns when it comes to increasing staff members. Only the coaches can do most of the recruiting. I believe some of the support staff can receive phone calls but the biggest benefit is the scouting and reviewing film. The more work they can take off of the assistants plates the better.
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Some schools (especially in the B1G) just don’t want to deal with JUCO’s. For example at Wisconsin JUCO’s will not got admitted unless they were qualifiers out of High School. Wisconsin also limits the number of low ACT score kids (kids with 18’s or 19’s etc..) as they want to keep the team average closer to the lower quartile of the student body. I think changing the admissions standards for these at risk students but making them sit a year perhaps with minimal team activities would be beneficial for both parties.
Harder to compete Nationally when your talent pool is administratively limited.
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Kevin,
To be clear, I don’t agree with the articles recommendations. He may well be right from a football perspective, but I think the B10 universities are right about maintaining academic standards. B10 fans just have to accept the price that comes with keeping that stance.
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It’s a kind of weird stance, though. Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan, probably all the schools have made exceptions for admissions for football players. They’ve all recruited players with shady backgrounds and spotty behavior while in school. They just have fewer of those players than schools in other leagues. It’s as thought the stance is, “We’re fine with 4-8 players on the team with questionable character, but not more than that. SEC schools will take dozens, but we’ll only take fewer than 10. And we’ll only have 2-5 academic exceptions per recruiting class, whereas other schools will take 10-15.” It’s rather half-ass. They still make exceptions, just not as many as schools in other leagues. They’re not fewer enough, though, to avoid embarrassment for their universities altogether.
I wish all of college football was composed of Myron Rolles, Russell Wilsons, Tim Tebows, and Drew Breeses–guys who are high in character and more than academically worthy of being students at their universities. But that’s not the way it is, unfortunately.
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Michael in Raleigh,
“It’s a kind of weird stance, though. Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan, probably all the schools have made exceptions for admissions for football players. They’ve all recruited players with shady backgrounds and spotty behavior while in school.”
I think schools are slowly getting better about not accepting bad behavior. Almost all teams make some academic exceptions, but considering that test scores and HS grades aren’t always great predictors of college success I have less of a problem with that. I don’t want idiots on OSU’s team, but I can understand giving poor kids from bad schools a chance sometimes. The issue for the B10 is that they generally won’t make as big of an exception academically as other conferences, so they have to pass on players that they later play against.
“I wish all of college football was composed of Myron Rolles, Russell Wilsons, Tim Tebows, and Drew Breeses–guys who are high in character and more than academically worthy of being students at their universities. But that’s not the way it is, unfortunately.”
I’d be fine with making athletes go through the regular admissions system, but schools make academic exceptions for certain people (artists, musicians, dancers, etc) anyway. An elite athlete should get that same chance at an exception as any other student. Unfortunately, that would make it pretty hard on the elite private schools to compete.
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Note that with regular JUCO students, large flagship universities chase the best academic performers as transfers, to fill in their class cohorts from original freshman entrants who’ve dropped out. It seems like it would make sense for at least a few Big Ten programs to do the same.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/107497/ohio-state-letting-noah-spence-practice
Here’s another moral decision that holds the B10 back (I agree with the B10 on this one, too). 2 positive drug tests and you’re permanently ineligible in the B10.
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http://scienceblogs.com/gnxp/2009/05/04/map-of-seven-deadly-sins/
Maps of the 7 deadly sins in the US. The south is mighty “sinful” (especially envy, lust, wrath and pride) for being the Bible belt.
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Ratings for RU-PSU are highest ever for BTN in NY and Philly markets.
http://www.cynopsis.com/091614-nbc-sports-lines-ryder-cup-programming-golf-channel-nhl-sets-epix-battle-penn-mutual-life-insurance-company-scrums-collegiate-rugby/
(7th paragraph of article)
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That was a crappy first game in the Goombah Bowl series.
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Speaking of the Big Ten, Saturday night’s nail biter on BTN between Penn State and Rutgers ranked as the highest-rated college football game in the New York and Philadelphia DMAs, according to Nielsen LPM Overnights. The game drew a 4.4 rating in Philadelphia and a 2.2 rating in NY, the channel’s highest rated ever in both markets.
That’s the first time I’ve ever seen BTN ratings quoted, I think. Those aren’t great numbers, but they represent a huge number of people. I wish they’d given some prior number to compare to the RU/PSU game (prior record highs, prior averages for PSU game, prior averages for any game, etc).
NYC = 7,461,030 TV homes
Philly = 2,963,500 TV homes
PSU/RU = 294,537 TV homes in those two markets alone (130k in Philly, 164k in NYC)
For a comparison, 150,000 is roughly equivalent to drawing a 16.3 rating in Columbus.
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Here is a link that gives comparison with other college football games on Saturday. In NY, RU v PSU 2.2, Notre Dame v. Purdue 1.7. In Philly, RU v. PSU 4.4, Georgia v South Car, 2.7.
The RU – PSU game was a Sat night game. I do not know if that helped or hurt ratings. I would guess it helped.
According to the Nielsen listing posted below, the NY TV market is nearly 7.4 million homes (not people – homes). Philly close to 3 million homes.
So far the BTN network should be happy with the RU and UMd expansion.
While I am certainly NOT predicting that it will ever happen, if RU were to become a top tier B1G school (or at least upper mid-tier with competitive games against the kings), the entire B1G will make a lot more money from the advertising sold on the network. I am not sure that the future football fortunes of RU or UMd will make a difference in the next contract, but I presume that advertising is variable and will rise with ratings.
As an aside, which I predict will NOT happen, a junior DE in NJ is supposedly the top ranked player in his class. Another junior in NJ is the top ranked running. They are discussing signing with RU together – play for the home team. I would put the odds of this at about 5%. Not impossible, not at all likely.
If, and it is a huge if, something like this happened, it could dramatically and quickly change RU football. If RU could just get half of the top 10 players in NJ every year, that is a top 20 ranked team. RU is the only P5 football team within more than a 150 mile radius of NYC. There is vast potential, but it probably will never be realized.
http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2014/09/rutgers-penn_state_the_highest-rated_college_football_game_in_new_york_and_philadelphia.html
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Nielsen’s updated major league markets by market size.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2014/09/sports-market-size-nba-nfl-mlb-nhl-nielsen-universe-estimates-2014/
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College football TV ratings for the first two weeks.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/09/15/analysis-college-football-playoff/15687819/
Is the playoff killing the magic of CFB?
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I somewhat feel the playoff has already ruined the season even before conference play has started. I wonder if the B1G will get lousy rating this year since everyone is predicting the conference to be left out. All the focus is on the playoff teams and those that lose may lose a number of casual fans throughout the year as less focus will be on the bowls and making a BCS bowl etc..
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The Big Ten’s ratings will be aided greatly by virtue of their presence of four teams in the Top 25 in spite of the league’s poor performance against other leagues. Meanwhile, the ACC’s ratings will be weaker because it has only two Top 25 teams even though it has had a strong season outside of the conference.
I do think college football will still be popular outside of those CFP contenders. People love the major conferences; that’s why they got those huge TV contracts. Heck, even the MAC gets decent ratings on Tuesday and Wednesday nights. I’m not too concerned about the ratings overall. The problem, really, is that the discussion on radio and TV shows, and announcers during games, focus too much on the CFP. I do hope they continue to celebrate conference championship races, traditional rivalries, pageantry, bowl games, etc., but even if they don’t, I think fans themselves still will.
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Penn St./Rutgers got a 4.4 in Philly and 2.2 in NYC on the BTN. Not bad for BTN.
For those of you who thought the B1G didn’t know what it was doing with Rutgers, Delany is pretty frank:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2196169-mark-blaudschuns-blitz-despite-struggles-big-ten-racking-up-long-term-wins
“Rutgers was emulating Bucknell more than Penn State. ”
Also in the article:
“But then there were other changes. The ACC, the SEC, the Pac-12. All of those other conferences were going into second regions. If we didn’t take the opportunity to do something, we felt we would be disadvantaged. We were happy with 11 teams and OK with 12 [Nebraska]. But then when the ACC started to make more moves and then went to Notre Dame, we felt we needed to grow a bit.”
Expansion in all areas was researched, but potential new additions had to be what Delany called “peer” institutions with the existing Big Ten schools. Delany said the Big Ten also looked into the expanding into the Sun Belt region.
“But there had to be a mutuality of interest. Rutgers and Maryland both fit the profile we wanted,” he said.
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The Rutgers/PSU ratings are the ceiling for Rutgers. All of their other games should get less viewers than that.
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For future PSU vs. Rutgers games? I don’t see how you can justify that comment. Yes, it was the first game and that garners attention and new viewers but if Rutgers improves as a program this game could have bigger implications in the future, thus potentially even better ratings.
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Hey, Andy, I hope you enjoyed the results of this weekend!
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We need to go back to 1970. We had three national champions–three!. Ohio State, Nebraska and Texas. Does it get any better than than? Think of Mike & Mike and how much fun they would have had with that.
Texas, Nebraska and Oklahoma were running the ‘bone and racking up 600 yards per game. The Rose Bowl and the B1G meant something. The conferences were strongly regional and of manageable size.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24711067/schools-can-give-out-4-year-scholarships-to-athletes-but-many-dont
A report on multi-year scholarships and which schools give them. This is the third year in which these could be given.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24711142/which-colleges-denied-or-charged-fees-for-scholarship-data
This is a list of which schools provided data, which ones charged for it an dhow much they charged.
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Calling Alan from Baton Rouge (and others),
Asking for your opinion — I spent the entire day driving in my car today — something I never do — and listened to Sirius radio for six hours — and conclude from my experience that: a majority of commentators and callers believe that corporal punishment in schools and by parents of children under 12 is a “southern culture” thing. Some statistics seem to support the assertion that k-12 schools use physical punishment about 10 – 100x more frequently in the south then the rest of the country (except of course Indiana), but the general point seems to be that: in the south, adults believe in the use of corporal punishment of children, advocate the use of corporal punishment of children in schools and will defend the right of other parents to use corporal punishment as a “right of parenting” (seemingly like a right to bear arms or the right of an employer to terminate employees in an “at-will” state).
Is this an accurate assessment of “southern culture”?
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I’d say that may be true outside of the large cities (I’m in Atlanta), but it’s certainly not universal. I wouldn’t be surprised if many supported the right for parents to decide how to punish their own children. That doesn’t mean they’d support what Adrian Peterson did.
However, I grew up in the midwest and that opinion was common there, too. That may have changed over the years, but I’d guess this is more of rural/urban or red/blue sort of thing than southern.
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Are you talking about corporal punishment in the schools, or in people’s homes? I grew up in Greenville, SC and have lived in three different parts of NC. When I was in elementary school in the late 80’s/early 90’s, paddling was still allowed, but it has been at least 20 years since it was legal in Greenville. My understanding is that it is illegal in both states.
I have worked in the school system. Here’s what I understood about the line between child abuse and perfectly legal spanking in the home. First, it’s very hard to prove. Bruises on arms and legs can too easily be dismissed as marks from children falling and bumping into things. Bruises on the torso or buttocks are grounds for employees to contact Child Protective Services. The problem is that it is very difficult to see those bruises; how are you supposed to ask a child to take his/her shirt off or pull pants down to see the bruises in an appropriate way? Even then, it is very difficult to prove because parents are given the benefit of the doubt. Anyway, the line is that it can’t be considered abuse unless it leaves a bruise. A red mark that wears away in the matter of hours is not legally abuse.
A lot of older adults around her argue that spanking, or even using a belt, is necessary. They note that children are far more disrespectful to adults and to authority in general because spanking is done so much less now than in the past. They note that parents treat their children as though they are their “friends” and not as children who need to submit to authority.
Honestly, I think it’s clear that when a child’s skin is bruised or broken, that is sick child abuse. I don’t care what anyone who’s older or who’s my peer may say. But I also think parents should be allowed discretion to discipline their children, including spanking, as they see fit. (And, IMO, only parents should be the ones who get to decide when and whether their child is spanked.) It’s legal. It fits within religious guidelines. It is effective in shaping children’s character. Done properly, it is not as physically painful as it is an emotional warning. I don’t know if that qualifies as “corporal punishment,” but if it does, I’m in favor of that type. But I am very, very, very against hurting a child.
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Mike in Raleigh,
I admit that until this series of incidents and discussions — like the one here — I had never thought about corporal punishment of children in school or by parents.
A quick google search — 19 states allow corporal punishment in schools. US DOE studies were published in 2006 and 2009. Here is a link to the 2006 study. I believe that little has changed in 2009.
http://www.stophitting.com/index.php?page=statesbanning
Hitting children in schools is legally endorsed in South Carolina and North Carolina
http://www.wfmynews2.com/story/news/local/2014/09/16/corporal-punishment-north-carolina-schools-teachers-students-paddling-spanking/15714847/
and I am not a lawyer but it appears that a 2011 Delaware law might prohibit hitting children by parents and caregivers — but I am not sure — and it is the only state where this might be the case.
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Hmmm… well, all I can say is that there it isn’t allowed in the Wake County (Raleigh/Cary) school district or in Chapel Hill or Greenville, SC.
Wow. I didn’t know SC and NC allowed it in schools.
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I guess it is a southern thing. The map is the full SEC footprint + OK, KS, CO, ID, WY in addition to the 3 states mentioned before (IN, NC, SC). VA is missing.
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Peterson is accused of more than just giving his son pops on the behind.
If it was simply corporal punishment, Texas wouldn’t be prosecuting him. Charles Barkely made the comment that if corporal punishment was child abuse, every Black parent in the south would be in jail. A lot of people in the south don’t think its particularly effective and don’t want schools doing it, but its only far out flakes who think its their business if parents give their own children pops on the behind. Like Brian, I suspect the Midwest feels mostly the same way.
NFL is responding to advertiser’s pressure now. They really haven’t cared before about having criminals in their ranks. I don’t particularly care about pro players. They don’t represent me. If they want to have violent (non-murderous) people on their team that’s their choice. I feel a lot stronger about college players and their behavior.
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I don’t like that people get treated differently based on the randomness of publicity. There are a lot of players who have done worse who got no punishment. But the NFL, like the NBA, is a business. People like Peterson and Rice and the Clippers and Hawks owners have become bad for business so the leagues needed to act. The unions need to get involved to make sure the punishment is appropriate for the action as the commissioner has the power of prosecutor, judge and jury, so there is no other check on his choices.
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In line with that train of thought, as far as FSU is concerned, its ok for Winston to rape (allegedly) and pillage (for crab claws), but its not ok to use 4 letter words in public copying a popular internet “meme”?
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/9/17/6337857/jameis-winston-suspended-for-first-half-vs-clemson-due-to-obscene
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Frank, congratulations to ex-Illini star Tanner Roark as he pitched seven shutout innings tonight to help the Washington Nationals clinch the NL East title with a 3-0 win at Atlanta.
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A surprisingly large number of visiting teams have clinched at Turner Field over the years.
Even better, there was a concert after the game so many Braves fans had to stay through the Nats’ celebration.
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There was a little celebration on the field, but most of it took place in the visitors’ clubhouse. From what I gather, the Nats didn’t try to rub it in, a la the Dodgers in Arizona last season, though of course there’s no pool at Turner Field. (Manager Matt Williams was on the D’backs staff a year ago.)
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Who was the concert act?
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Cole Swindell. A country singer, I assume.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24713089/michigan-and-texas-agree-to-home-and-home-series
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I’m really liking all the matchups being scheduled between the B1G kings and Big 12 kings.
Ohio State has games scheduled with Texas and Oklahoma.
Michigan now has games with Texas and Oklahoma.
Nebraska has games scheduled with Oklahoma.
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The interesting thing to look for in Michigan’s non-conference scheduling is whether or not the Wolverines opt to play two Power 5 conference teams in home-and-home series. UM has both Washington and Virginia Tech in the 2020 and 2021 seasons.
Michigan could potentially put a second P5 conference team on its schedule for the 2018/9 seasons (currently have home-and-home with Arkansas), 2022/3 (home-and-home with UCLA), 2024/7 (home-and-home with Texas) and 2025/6 (home-and-home with Oklahoma).
If that does happen, it means Michigan “loses” one home game every two years because of the nine-game conference schedule, i.e., UM will have alternating years of six and seven home games. If that were to happen, it leaves open the question about why Michigan is going this route. Is it a reflection of soft ticket sales and an attempt to give better value to the people attending the games? Is it to make the television line up more inviting? Is it because of how UM perceives the degree to which strength of schedule will effect the post season playoffs?
Michigan is also going away from scheduling MAC teams. UM’s game the previous Saturday with Miami (Ohio) is the last on the current schedules until 2020 (home game with Hoke’s alma mater Ball State). The Wolverines are drawing pay for play games from the American Athletic (UCF, Cincinnati, SMU) and Mountain West (Air Force, Hawaii, UNLV).
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Missouri schedules a home and home with UConn starting next year.
The conference move meant Mizzou lost some noncon games, and have had a hard time filling their 2015 schedule because so many teams are full.
Still one spot left. Only BCS team with an opening left in 2015 that I know of is Arizona. Hopefully both schools make it happen.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/107537/tbt-tom-bradys-college-resume
Tom Brady’s college resume. I post it just to note that he had summer jobs every year he was at MI, including two jobs both of his last 2 years.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/107488/big-ten-predictions-week-4-3
Week 4 projections for the B10 from the ESPN.com B10 staff:
Unanimous wins = 8 – IL, MSU, MN, NE, NW, PSU, PU, WI
4-2 in favor = 1 – UMD over SU
4-2 against = 2 – Utah over MI, Navy over RU
5-1 against = 1 – Pitt over IA
Unanimous loss = 1 – IN vs MO
That would be another ugly week (9-4). Hopefully we win at least 10.
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http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/fplus2014
F/+ ratings through Saturday (average/standard deviation):
1. SEC W – 3, 6, 7, 9, 10, 17, 44 (13.7/13.0)
2. P12 N – 2, 4, 28, 34, 62, 66 (32.7/25.0)
3. B10 E – 8, 18, 35, 36, 45, 55, 63 (37.1/18.0)
4. ACC C – 29, 31, 32, 40, 42, 43, 53 (38.6/7.9)
5. P12 S – 20, 22, 30, 33, 41, 88 (39.0/23.0)
6. B12 – 5, 11, 14, 25, 26, 50, 54, 60, 67, 100 (41.2/28.6)
7. ACC A – 1, 16, 21, 51, 56, 58, 103 (43.7/31.7)
8. SEC E – 12, 13, 19, 37, 64, 73, 91 (44.1/29.5)
9. B10 W – 23, 27, 39, 61, 70, 75, 95 (55.7/24.8)
SEC – 32.4/31.2
P12 – 45.3/22.7
ACC – 48.7/20.6
B10 – 55.3/21.2
B12 – 59.5/22.1
The only real outliers are the SEC W and the B10 W. The P12 N is a little bit of one as well. Everyone else is fairly similar.
Obviously it’s early and these numbers will change, but it just shows how much of the narrative is subjective rather than objective.
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Is divisional pride the next logical step from conference pride? A gap like the two you noted would suggest it’s a possibility.
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Probably. Fans like any excuse to needle other fans.
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Wait, how are the B12 averages different? And the average that you have for the B10, ACC and P12 as a whole are lower than either division.
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Excel error. The division numbers are correct. New conference numbers below.
SEC – 28.9/27.4
P12 – 35.8/24.2
ACC – 41.1/23.2
B12 – 41.2/28.6
B10 – 46.4/23.6
1. SEC W – 13.7/13.0
A. SEC – 28.9/27.4
2. P12 N – 32.7/25.0
B. P12 – 35.8/24.2
3. B10 E – 37.1/18.0
4. ACC C – 38.6/7.9
5. P12 S – 39.0/23.0
C. ACC – 41.1/23.2
6. B12 – 41.2/28.6
D. B12 – 41.2/28.6
7. ACC A – 43.7/31.7
8. SEC E – 44.1/29.5
E. B10 – 46.4/23.6
9. B10 W – 23, 27, 39, 61, 70, 75, 95 (55.7/24.8)
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http://www.mlssoccer.com/next
Beware the autoplay video!
MLS came out with a new logo. It looks fine except for the slash extending past the shield.
WORDMARK: MLS stands for Major League Soccer.
SLASH: The slash refers to soccer’s speed and energy. The slash begins outside the perimeter and drives upward at a 45-degree angle to illustrate both the nonstop nature of our game and the rising trajectory of our league. It bisects the crest to create a “first half” and “second half.”
STARS: The three stars represent the pillars of our brand: For Club, For Country, For Community.
PERIMETER: The perimeter represents the lines that mark off the field of play.
FIRST HALF AND SECOND HALF: The first half contains MLS and the three stars. The second half is an open white space that brings you in and out of the MLS world.
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I was struck by this coverage map earlier of Utah@Michigan. To me, it shows what the Pac-12 and B1G were hoping to build by partnering through scheduling. Not only expanded coverage for each conference’s teams, but a synergy that puts the two conferences on ABC in most of the country (vs. ESPN).
I wonder if shifts in the future will allow something like that to develop? Will college football ultimately wean itself down to 4 power conferences, with two larger divisions (B1G + Pac12 in one, SEC + ACC/B12 in the other)? It would certainly give the conferences enormous bargaining power on television.
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Naturally, I forgot the link.
http://utefans.net/message.php?id=1649504
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It would simply be a redux of the Rose Bowl v. CFA in the 1980s.
Whatever form the college football landscape takes in the form of deciding a single champion. I wonder this dichomotomy might also reflect differences in scholarship guanrantees and compensation amounts (formats) between the 2 camps (guaranteed 4-year scholarships, deferred compensation for the B10/Pac vs. oversigning, 1-year scholarships and smaller “bonus” type year to year compensation for the SEC/ACC – I think the B12s will split across the 2 camps, and ND well who knows…).
It might also be reflected in rule changes, game clock management protocols, other ways leading it to look like the NL/AL dichotomy in baseball, which still has a World Series between the 2.
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Suicide watch for Andy the Missouri fan. Don’t worry Andy, it’s IU, they’ll probably find a way to lose. :22 to somehow win.
Bear in mind, IU just lost to a MAC team last week.
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Shocking results. It’s too bad perception for the BIG is so PSU-MI-OSU-Neb dependent, esp Mi and OSU.
Mi’s likely loss will probably overshadow a nice day by the BIG, perhaps going 3-0 against the ACC. If Neb wins convincingly, the BIG gets a little grace period of smack with the ACC, a whole lot with the SEC.
Missouri impressed me last week when they dominated UCF, a team PSU needed last minute heroics to beat. And of course, they had a wonderful 2013, nearly winning the SEC.
CF is still filled with unpredictability, well it always will be.
Big win for IU!
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Watch (redacted) wax poetic about their glorious bowl record in 3…2…1…
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It looked a little more unpredictable than it has the last few years. A lot of fun games to couple with the blowouts this week.
Clemson really blew their chances. But the worst cases of blowing it go to: #2 La Tech who led with 4 1/2 minutes left by 10 over FCS NW St. and gave up a TD, fumble & FG, INT and FG as time expired and the #1 case was Cal who led the whole game but gave up 36 4thQ pts to Arizona including 19 in the last 3 1/2 minutes, including a 47 yard hail Mary on the last play and lost 49-45.
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Missouri played a terrible game. Their team leader and best player was out, which probably made a difference, but they should have won anyway.
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Haven’t watched any football this year, or followed this blog lately but when I saw the final Missouri-Indiana score on the internet just now I had to come here and join in on the schadenfreude at Andy’s expense.
Big Ten East > SEC East.
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Missouri gets the most out of 3 and 2 star recruits. That means they have some really good top players but inconsistency throughout their roster and little depth. Because of the good star players and good coaching they’re able to win a lot of games, but they’re up and down. 8 wins, 12 wins, 10 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins, 8 wins, 5 wins, 12 wins… looks like another 8 win season this year. Had a couple starters out with injuries, including our best player, and not enough depth to cover it. Offense is looking weaker than last year too. They’ll probably still beat Vandy and Kentucky and probably Arkansas too. Then maybe one or two more.
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Arch Stanton,
“Big Ten East > SEC East”
It was going into this weekend, too. See my comment above.
F/+ ratings through 9/13 (average/standard deviation):
3. B10 E – 8, 18, 35, 36, 45, 55, 63 (37.1/18.0)
8. SEC E – 12, 13, 19, 37, 64, 73, 91 (44.1/29.5)
1st and 2nd are even
3rd favors the SEC E
4th is even
5th – 7th greatly favor the B10 E
The west divisions are barely playing the same game, but the E favors the B10 for now.
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Big Ten went 12-1 this week. Some wins were less than impressive, but some wins were. Could have been the first time ever that they got 13 wins in a week if not for the dumpster fire currently raging in Ann Arbor.
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Michigan = nearly 100% mental at this point. It’s in desperate need of culture change. Any feel-good corporate team-building strategists can see this – they all need to spend a day at Tony Robbins seminar. Calling Tom Cruise, aka “Frank Mackie” – that is “respect the _ _ _ _ and tame the _ _ _ _!”. The biggest has been on their coaching staff is Mattison. Please retire!
It was a better day for the BIG, national perception and humiliation has been well heard at this point. But outside Missouri, none of the wins were upsets of any kind.
We know the ACC is top heavy & Miami has been mostly garbage since their downfall which OSU initiated. Many teams have destroyed Miami since that OT thriller, many. Nonetheless, the ACC is still mostly awful, though they sit in prime recruiting territories.
Illinois still remains the program with far more upside than they continue to demonstrate. Somehow, some way, Illinois has to build an AD of success – it’s got so many things in place to make it happen. Where there are collective wills, there is a way.
I’m beginning to wonder about ECU in the now dormant expansion craze. Even back in the early 90s, we’d make regular drives up to Greenville from Jacksonville because most people in that state realize its the best football program no one ever heard of. Fast growing city, campus, great game day atmosphere.
It would be an unlikely, but bold move by the BIG or SEC to take ECU – a huge slap in the face to the ACC. I don’t think ECU will every fall of the passion train for their football program & it steers clear enough from Tobacco Road hype.
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“It was a better day for the BIG, national perception and humiliation has been well heard at this point. But outside Missouri, none of the wins were upsets of any kind.
We know the ACC is top heavy & Miami has been mostly garbage since their downfall which OSU initiated. Many teams have destroyed Miami since that OT thriller, many. Nonetheless, the ACC is still mostly awful, though they sit in prime recruiting territories.”
A P5 win is still a P5 win, considering where we are competitively at this time. Sure, I would prefer some of those wins against a top B12, PAC or another SEC team but it is what it is.
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gfunk,
“But outside Missouri, none of the wins were upsets of any kind.”
That’s just not true. Pitt was a 7 point favorite. Navy was a 6 point favorite. Syracuse was a 1 point favorite.
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Let me justify “upset” – none involved ranked teams like IU – but impressive that Rutgers, Md and Iowa (a better road team) won away. Remember the BIG’s issues are a perception problem, true or not. I said in my earlier post that Mi’s loss would cast a shadow on yesterday’s 12-1 day – I think to some degree this is still true, though ND may not be as impressive as we think. These were mild upsets at most. But as the season progresses, let’s see how those wins will look in the bigger picture. If Pitt and Syracuse finish on the bottom of the ACC, while Md and Iowa finish near the top, the committee may not be so hard on the ACC.
One thing I was clinging to until yesterday: LSU running the SEC table, that way a similar run by Wisky increases the BIG’s chance of a playoff berth. Oh well, but LSU due to SEC membership, can still right the ship 3 of their final 8 opponents are still ranked in the top 10 – Bama, Auburn and aTm.
This season may just be a cliff hanger for the BIG’s playoff hopes. It may boil down to a 11-1 or 12-1 ACC -BIG team. The BIG will breathe a huge sigh of relief is FSU loses at least once. Miami can help as well, and maybe finish strong in the ACC. I just don’t see Syracuse or Pitt doing the BIG any favors.
If Oregon falters, which almost happened and MSU wins the BIG, we might have credibility issues with the Pac12. BIG is 1-3 against the Pac12.
A lot of football left.
PS Keep your eye on the ND-NW game, the Wildcats win yet ND cleans house in their 1/2 ass ACC schedule, it will help the BIG. Maybe this is a year NW starts slow but finishes strong. But, the game is in South Bend.
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East Carolina no more is a B1G-type institution than is Cincinnati or West Virginia, and it’s hardly on the SEC’s radar. It’s an indictment of the ACC that the best football program in its home state hasn’t a ghost of a chance of entering the conference, barring massive realignment that shifts some of its members to other leagues.
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Not so radical if the SEC went after them for new territory. Radical if the BIG did it. It would be a win win for the SEC, expands the best recruiting footprint even more and gets them in the door for an unlikely ACC implosion. The SEC traditional powers stay the course while the TV spreads.
I use to watch ECU games when stationed at Lejeune – easy road trip. They love their football. Greenville has gone from 50k to nearly 90k in population since 1990. Two hours north is Hampton Metro, 90 minutes west is R-D-CH. ECU has tremendous upside in large part because Tobacco Road has always been so damn hoops focused. Don’t even ask about ECU basketball, not impressive.
ECU’s stadium currently hold 50k, more than WF and Duke.
Interestingly, ODU goes FBS next year & I believe they are smack dab center of Virginia’s best prep football. Hampton Metro is underrated in terms of cosmopolitan energy – I’ve always enjoyed my visits there. But, ODU plays in a smaller venue than many Texas high school teams.
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If UNC is the SEC’s wet dream in the event of an ACC implosion. taking in ECU would drive Chapel Hill right into the arms of the Big Ten were such an event to happen. The Tar Heels don’t want to be perceived on the same level with their baby brothers in Greenville.
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Back when I had to care what the Big East was doing, I was always befuddled as to why ECU was ignored when they were looking at teams to add.
Even most of the “name” BE schools like Pitt and Syr had limited fan support. You could always count on WVU to draw 60,000 at home, bring 10,000 or more to any road or bowl game, and usually add football excitement to the conference. So, you had ECU sitting out there as basically “WVU-lite”, and instead the BE was trying to get Villanova moved up into an 18,000 seat soccer stadium.
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Phil,
They preferred to upgrade a non-football member over adding yet another outsider in their quest for football legitimacy. They had an equal split and didn’t want to have more football members than non-football members.
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@Phil,
Much of the resistence to adding ECU was from the Catholic 7 plus Notre Dame. They had little to no incentive to add ECU, even for football-only. All the previous football-only members beside Temple had eventually squeezed their way into the Big East, which the old basketball-driven schools resented because it diminished the old 1980’s classic BE basketball rivalries. A school like ECU would have weakened their RPI, they argued, and didn’t fit into the profile of mostly large city schools.
Also, towards the end of the old Big East’s life cycle (after Miami, VT, and BC left but before WVU and everyone else left), expansion was overly concerned with just maintaining the automatic bid to the BCS under the old formula that was required. ECU would not have helped enough, whereas TCU and Boise State would have. That’s why those schools were pursued before ECU was.
Of course, ECU could have thrived in the Big East, and the Big East could have benefited as well. ECU has not always been the best of the non-power conference schools, but their highs are really high while their worst seasons are not that bad. They are also far from the typical “directional school.” They’re not new to football, unlike the Florida schools. They sell out 50,000, not three-fourths of a 32,000-seat stadium. They have a football culture that many former Big East schools and legacy ACC schools envy.
But the alternate interests are why the Big East ultimately split up and never truly considered adding ECU. Divided interests in an overwhelmingly large conference of wide-ranging budgets, enrollments, sports offered, etc., made the breakup of the Big East almost inevitable.
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Villanova was a clear sign the Big East had no interest in football.
And Villanova was embarrassingly unprepared to answer the question when they were asked.
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Let’s face it, ECU is the number 3 state university in a nice size state, but NC is not CA, TX, or FL. It is either the number four or number 5 most desirable school in NC for a major conference (depending on ECU v. Wake Forest)
Duke has been up in football the last year or two, but ignoring that Duke has top quality academics and bball. Duke is a relatively small private school, and would not by itself deliver NC, so Duke leaving the ACC is probably part of a joint deal with NC, or something like that. Duke is too strong academically and in bball to ever be left without a home. Wake is another issue.
ECU has a big problem in the new world of college football. Maybe if the Big 12 expands and gives up on NC or NCState, ECU has a home.
As to the Big Least, at the end the basketball schools killed the chance of the football teams thriving. The split had to happen. Some schools did fine or even better than fine – RU did great. Louisville, Pitt. Cuse, and WVU did fine. UConn, Cincinnati, USF (and, I guess UCF) got screwed.
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Jersey Bernie,
I don’t think there would ever be a conference that rolled over as quickly or as frequently as the former Big East (unless the ACC sometime in the future gets divided between the SEC, B10 and B12, but that’s for another discussion). One thing that the so-called P5 has that the hoops-obsessed no-football schools will ever get is that they truly value stability, the overall quality and long-term membership over what’s “hot” at any snapshot of time. When questions about the overall health of the league is always answered with “Well, what has your basketball team done recently?” then there wasn’t much that could be done. It’s like Russia and the USA (or the USA and China, whatever analogy is most convenient to you). Reconciling two distinct worldviews is very hard to achieve even for the best minds in the business, let alone a two-bit flack like Trainedgeese.
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
The AP poll is out. The top 7 are unchanged.
MSU is up to #9. MsSU jumped to #14 while LSU dropped to #17. NE moved up to #21.
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/polls/
And the coaches’ poll. MsSU up to 16, LSU down to 18. MSU up to 9, NE up to 19. PSU is #27.
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I don’t think there is a better time for Minnesota to win back the LBJ than next week. Michigan is entering crisis mode right now. Nobody there knows how to turn it around and people are already turning against Hoke. OTOH, the Gophers still are trying to find a passing game.
This might go down to the wire.
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Meat-chicken does not look well… However, that was the thought last year, and somehow/some way, Gardner and Co played their best game of the year and sliced/diced the Gophers. (Granted there were some distractions with Kill’s seizure and being out, and Leidner’s first start).
If the Gophers can run, they’ll win… simple as that. Passing…it is absolutely beyond me why the boys in maroon and gold are struggling so badly with the forward pass…
I certainly wouldn’t put any money on either of these teams…
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Michigan’s run defense has arguably been the best part of the team. MSU sits #1 in the Big Ten (#5 in the nation) in rush yards/game with 71.7 per game, whereas Michigan falls in at 2nd and 9th, respectively, with 80.3 yards per game.. The team sits at #1 in the Big Ten (8th nationally, one above Wisconsin) in yards/game.
Michigan held Utah to 286 yards and ND to 280 yards, yet we were blown out 31-0 and 26-10. That is unimaginable. The Utah score was more respectable, but you never felt like there was any chance of a comeback once Utah went up a score. The most telling stat is that there were no trips inside the red zone against Utah or ND. Our offense is worse than Idaho St’s and Fresno St’s.
You have to think it would take a miracle for Hoke to be around after this year, and then you have to wonder what options you have. I what it would take to get Smart to come. I don’t know if it’s even possible, but it is a pretty big coaching job. One concern would be lack of former HC experience.
Back on topic though of Minnesota vs. Michigan. Michigan matches up very well with Minnesota. The question is, can Michigan even score? I think our rush D is better than their rush attack, and without their ground game, what does Minnesota have?
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And I somehow missed PSU is #1 nationally with 49.5 rush yards per game…so..yeah.
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How does it look when adjusted for rushing attempts per game? One way to boost your rush defense numbers is to have a sufficiently bad pass defense to encourage the opposition to pass more often.
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BruceMcF,
“How does it look when adjusted for rushing attempts per game?”
National ypc rank:
1. PSU – 1.75
9. MI – 2.51
10. WI – 2.58
12. MSU – 2.68
25. IA – 2.96
National cpg ranks for MI’s foes:
29. Utah – 45.7 (4.21 ypc)
39. App St – 43.3 (3.90)
83. ND – 37.0 (4.27)
91. Miami – 35.5 (2.08)
Medians for I-A = #64, 39.1 (4.30)
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Coke is giving away 2 tickets to this game if you buy 2 cokes. Pitiful.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11572150/michigan-wolverines-pull-plug-coke-tickets-deal
Not any more. MI claims they never approved the promotion.
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Those who stay… will get free refills.
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Week 4 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 5
(Indiana beats Missouri @ Missouri and saves some B1G pride against the SEC)
Big 5 = 21 of 64 remain (32.81%)
ACC —- 4 of 14 or 28.57% remain
Atlantic : NC State 4-0 + Florida State 3-0 // 2 of 7
Costal : Georgia Tech and Duke 4-0 // 2 of 7
Florida State @ NC State / Duke @ Miami / Georgia Tech is OFF
B12 —- 3 of 10 or 30.00% remain
Oklahoma 4-0 + Baylor 3-0 + TCU 2-0
Baylor @ Iowa State / TCU @ SMU / Oklahoma is OFF
B1G —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
East : Penn State (4-0, 1-0) // 1 of 7
West : Nebraska (4-0, 0-0) // 1 of 7
Northwestern @ Penn State / Illinois @ Nebraska
PAC —- 7 of 12 or 58.33% remain
North : Oregon and Washington 4-0 + Oregon State 3-0 // 3 of 6
South : Arizona 4-0 + Arizona State, UCLA, and Utah 3-0 // 4 of 6
UCLA @ AZ State / Stanford @ Washington / WSU @ Utah / OR State @ USC
SEC —- 5 of 14 or 35.71% remain
East : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 7
West : Alabama, Mississippi State and Texas A&M 4-0 + Auburn and Mississippi 3-0 // 5 of 7
Texas A&M vs Arkansas / Louisiana Tech @ Auburn / Memphis @ Mississippi
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 4 of 62 remain (6.45%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain or 00.00%
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
AAC : Cincinnati is 2-0 // 1 of 11 remain or 9.09%
CUSA : Marshall is 4-0 // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Brigham Young 4-0 + Notre Dame 3-0 // 2 of 4 or 50.00%
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3
Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4
SEC East and MAC
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Well, Paul James blew out his knee and is out for the season. Huge blow for RU.
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Really, Northwestern at a DIII school???*
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/_/id/77/northwestern-wildcats
Sat, Oct 18
vs
#21 Nebraska
7:30 PM ET BTN 2,060 available from $75
Sat, Oct 25
@
Westminster
2:00 PM ET
Buy on StubHub
Sat, Nov 1
@
Iowa
TBD 1,679 available from $57
*yes its a typo on ESPN’s part.
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Westminster is playing Northwestern (MN) on Oct. 25th, just not the one in the B1G. Sort of like confusing Miami of the ACC with Miami (OH). ESPN is lame to make the mistake since it is qualified with MN in the schedule.
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Nebraska hoops taking advantage of the convergence of legacy, access to Chicago talent and a recent NCAA bid: http://highschoolcubenews.com/2014/09/22/nebraska-lands-simeons-ed-morrow/
Landing 2 of the top 6 kids in Illinois hits the Illini hard across the face.
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Did Illinois even want these two? According to Rivals neither had an Illini offer.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11575323/notre-dame-fighting-irish-coach-brian-kelly-says-suspended-players-hearings-near
ND could have a hearing for the 5 players suspended for the academic scandal by the end of next week.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11575323/notre-dame-fighting-irish-coach-brian-kelly-says-suspended-players-hearings-near
A bitter former starting QB for MI goes off on the program on the radio.
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http://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/2014/09/23/michigan-football-michael-taylor/16097329/
Sorry, wrong link.
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Bitter former Michigan players and Buckeye internet superfans like Brian should get along just fine.
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@Frank
You realize that link is Clay Travis, don’t you? He provides no support for his idea that the relationship is frayed. There was certainly no public indication. I think its just that he looked stupid saying CBS would pay an arm and a leg to the SEC just because the SEC added two programs that are middle of the pack in the SEC. CBS said we aren’t getting anything we didn’t already have, why should we pay more?
And his financial comments are ridiculous. He’s saying someone (Fox his employer?) should buy CBS out for $125 million, $70 million more than they are making now, and pay the SEC $200 million and they would still make money. Clay Travis should not be listened to on anything financial. He is not smarter than a 5th grader. Or a 3rd grader for that matter.
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http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/outkick-the-coverage/cbs-s-relationship-with-the-sec-is-over-092314
Not only that, there is almost no such thing as an irreparably damaged business relationship in sports TV. If CBS offers the most money the next time around, the SEC will strongly consider their bid.
And why would CBS ever agree to drop the games? Nobody will offer them enough money to make that a good idea.
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http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/index.ssf/2014/09/rutgers_projects_166_percent_increase_in_athletics_revenue_over_next_year.html
RU revenue projections have come out. They expect a 16.6% increase over the next year.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/221090-espn-suspends-bill-simmons-for-comments-made-about-roger-goodell?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2
Bill Simmons gets suspended for 3 weeks by ESPN for saying what everyone was thinking. However, it violated ESPN “journalistic standards.” “Every employee must be accountable to ESPN and those engaged in our editorial operations must also operate within ESPN’s journalistic standards. We have worked hard to ensure that our recent NFL coverage has met that criteria.”
ESPN journalistic standards probably mean you don’t speak ill of prime properties like the NFL.
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Huh. Goodell gives Rice 2 weeks for his action. Simmons gets 3 for his opinion.
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He dared his bosses to suspend him. His suspension is more for that than for running his mouth off.
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/09/26/Media/Simmons-suspension.aspx
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So…daring your boss to suspend is a worse offense than Rice’s assult? Got it.
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You’re comparing apples and airplanes, and in a very silly manner.
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I was comparing suspend from work offenses, and the seeming disparity in importance about what is being discouraged.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11586555/wisconsin-badgers-athletic-director-barry-alvarez-offers-glimpse-college-football-playoff-criteria
Barry Alvarez mentions what stats he’ll use to pick playoff teams.
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http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11588029/university-south-carolina-gamecocks-guarantee-four-year-scholarships-headcount-sports
SC is the first SEC school to guarantee 4-year scholarships for their headcount sports.
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Notre Dame and aTm schedule home-and-home for 2024/5
http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/092514aal.html
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Smart move by Notre Dame
Gets benefit of SEC school on the schedule and gets Texas exposure for recruiting.
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Well, we are a complete train wreck here. Think a mid-season firing may be in order at this point for Hoke and Brandon.
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When’s the last time that UMich lost in 1 season all 4 rivalry games (ND, Minny, MSU, & OSU)?
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OK, I looked it up. The answer is “never”.
Last time UMich lost to all 3 of Minny, MSU, and OSU is 1967 (the ’60’s were bad for UMich; that trifecta also occurred in 1960, 1961, 1962, & 1965).
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67 was a really odd year for the Big 10. IU went to the Rose Bowl and was in a 3 way tie with MN and Purdue for the conference championship. IU and MN haven’t won since. It took Purdue about 30 years to win again.
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Good lord, Mattison needs to go as well. A damn dinosaur.
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Good lord, Mattison needs to go as well. A damn dinosaur.
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http://www.hammerandrails.com/2014/9/29/6868551/it-is-time-for-purdue-to-leave-the-big-ten
Based on the Purdue conversation several comments up, I thought this was interesting. I don’t agree with it but understand his point.
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If Purdue really cared to they could improve conditions in Football they could. Its not difficult. Check out former B10 doormat Northwestern, if they want to look for a model to follow. Small Stadium, and difficult Academics. Yet the Wildcats are doing it. Will they ever be Ohio State? No, but they are not Ball State either. I really believe that in a Decade, there will be no guarantee that they remain as an Athletic member of the B10 in the future. Why? Because Schools will have to start paying athletes (even Women’s Lacrosse because of Title IX). If they think things are tough now? Just wait. The University of Chicago route (just staying for Academics) remains a possibility to consider.
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There are more than a few power conference teams that have the same or less resources, certainly in the near future with the comming contract. I don’t see any of them voluntarily leaving.
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Brandon reports directly to the new president of the university, who has only barely unpacked his suitcase. He has other fish in the fryer right now. Also, Brandon got a contract extension not long ago, and his buyout would be a huge sum. Stephen Ross, the university’s largest donor, supports him. Like it or not, Brandon will be around a while.
I hopped off the Hoke train quite a while ago. For me, it’s a question of when, not if, he gets fired. Personally, I’d pull the trigger now, but I’m the wrong guy to ask, as I never thought he was the right guy to begin with. The question is what the folks are thinking who, at one point, thought that Hoke could coach this team.
You could argue whether four years is enough time to turn around a program: I think it is more than enough, though not everyone agrees. But the terrible game management is not going to improve. If you haven’t figured out by now how to get 11 men on the field to cover a punt, when will you? If you punt on 4th & 10, down 16 with four minutes to play, you are clueless. If you don’t realize that your QB can barely walk, you are beyond clueless.
If they fire Hoke now, there isn’t any obvious candidate for interim coach. Neither of the coordinators has exactly covered himself in glory. But it does give them 2-3 months to search for his replacement, without having to do it covertly.
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Kansas thinks the time to rebuild should be under 3 years; just fired Weis today after losing to Texas even though Kansas has not beaten Texas since winning by 1 point in 1938, a year Texas went 1-8. No one gets 4 years to rebuild anymore unless they are showing a lot of progress, something I do not see at Michigan.
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Kansas needs someone like Jim Leavitt who has experience building a program, even with his baggage. KU will simply chew up and spit out any rookie head coach, no matter how well-regarded such coach might be as an assistant.
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Firing mid-season is just creating a mess. You have an interim coach. You can’t hire your permanent. Players are in limbo and uncertainty. Much better to simply have speculation instead of total uncertainty.
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UAz and USC seemed to think it worthwhile. Yes, it might be disrupting to the current year, but it’s not like you are messing with a smooth running, well oiled machine. Actually, a shake up might be beneficial. See: USC last year.
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Well, if Hoke is gone, his replacement won’t be John Harbaugh. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24730342/report-john-harbaugh-not-interested-in-potential-michigan-job
Likely not going to be Jim, either, based on prior reporting detailing his anger with UM going back a ways — even if he might be leaving SF after the season.
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Mack Brown?
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Maybe Brown stays 3-4 years and brings Muschamp as sort of rehabiliate-able DC and as coach-in-waiting. Harbaugh might go for the UF job that opens up rather soon or dances around Spurrier’s retirement, much like Spurrier pounced on Holtz’ exit.
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@Marc:
Honest Q: Who is the preferred fan candidate to replace Hoke, and who are the realistic options (ie: coaches not named Harbaugh) out there? Are there more “Michigan Men” out there itching to lead the Wolverines, or is that well dry right now?
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Is Lloyd Carr sentient? That might be all you can really get. Corwin Brown, who would have dotted a lot of i’s and crossed several t’s went loco a few years back. I believe it was either Brown or Trezelle Jenkins who shouted “Whats up 87th Street” during the waning moments of the 1993 Rose Bowl win against Washington.
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Charlie Weis is available.
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Rich Rod seems like a good coach to look at….oh. Oops.
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cockadoodledoo
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A little redemption for the Big 10. Indiana has beaten the leader of the SEC East.
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Indiana has beaten the leader of the SEC East.
Well worth repeating!
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Too bad that was sandwiched by losses to BGSU and UMD. That must drive Hoosier fans nuts.
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You just always expect the little black rain cloud and enjoy the rare sunshine
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So, the chief competition for Michigan State in the East is…Illinois?
Illinois beat Western Kentucky
…who beat Bowling Green
…who beat Indiana
…who beat Mizzou
…who beat South Carolina
…who beat East Carolina
…who beat Virginia Tech
…who beat Ohio State.
Sure, you could pick Maryland (who also beat Indiana), but Illinois is the more fun choice.
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Illinois is in the West, though.
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Oops! I’ll get the divisions down, in time.
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You should. They finally made them logical. This isn’t legends and leaders or coast and toast or whatever the ACC calls its divisions.
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Atlantic and Coastal as names makes more sense for the “Atlantic Coast Conference” than Laggards and Lederhosen (or whatever it was) for the Big Ten … similar to Mountain and West for the Mountain West. IMO, the point of distinction is that the Mountain and West divisions actually make sense in the MWC, while the ACC divisions are memory test lineups.
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Week 5 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 6
Nebraska is now the last unbeaten in the B1G, go Big Red Thrashing Machine!
Big 5 = 14 of 64 remain (21.88%)
ACC —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (4-0, 2-0) // 1 of 7
Costal : Georgia Tech (4-0, 1-0) // 1 of 7
Wake Forest @ Florida State / Miami @ Georgia Tech
B12 —- 3 of 10 or 30.00% remain
Baylor and Oklahoma 4-0 + TCU 3-0
Baylor @ Texas / Oklahoma @ TCU
B1G —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
East : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 7
West : Nebraska (5-0, 1-0) // 1 of 7
Nebraska @ Michigan State
PAC —- 3 of 12 or 25.00% remain
North : Oregon 4-0 // 1 of 6
South : Arizona and UCLA 4-0 // 2 of 6
Arizona @ Oregon / Utah @ UCLA
SEC —- 5 of 14 or 35.71% remain
East : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 7
West : Texas A&M 5-0 + Alabama, Mississippi State, Auburn, and Mississippi 4-0 // 5 of 7
Texas A&M @ Mississippi State / Alabama @ Mississippi / LSU @ Auburn
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 3 of 62 remain (4.84%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain or 00.00%
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
CUSA : Marshall is 4-0 // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Brigham Young and Notre Dame 4-0 // 2 of 4 or 50.00%
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3
Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4
SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5
B1G East and American Athletic
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaaf/polls/
Not much change in the coaches’ poll.
AL passed FSU for #1. UCLA passed MSU for 9th. ASU and SC dropped like rocks so many teams moved up 2 spots.
SEC – 1, 5, 7, 11, 12, 14, 15
P12 – 4, 9, 13, 20, 24
B12 – 3, 6, 22, 23, 25
B10 – 10, 16, 17, 18
Ind. – 8, 19
ACC – 2
AAC – 21
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Hard to imagine FSU would be any better than 5 or 6 if there were no preseason polls.
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SEC West 1,5,7,11,14,15
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SEC East – #12, #26 + 5 NR
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
New AP poll keeps FSU at #1. UCLA jumped to #8. MO jumped to #24, making 8 ranked teams for the SEC.
SEC – 8
B12 – 5
P12 – 4
B10 – 4
Ind. – 2
ACC – 1
AAC – 1
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http://614analytics.com/southerners-hate-bowling/
A north/south split I wouldn’t have expected – bowling lanes per capita.
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Interesting. I think a lot of it has to do with the ethnic backgrounds of the immigrants in those areas. Folks from a German heritage love their bowling. I know growing up, the old churches and parochial schools in my home town all had bowling alleys in the basement.
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it looks like cold winters + rural population = more bowling lanes.
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Not surprising. Bowling’s a blue-collar white-ethnic (& beer-drinking & smoking) thing. And yes, quite correlated with colder climes.
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It looks like Syracuse is rethinking playing “home” games in the Meadowlands.
http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootball/index.ssf/2014/09/syracuse_football_not_currently_planning_any_met_life_games_after_2016_according.html
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It was just a mistake on a lot of levels.
-The strong support for their BB program in the NYC area does not translate at all to football
-You are screwing your regular fans by moving the best game on the schedule 4 hours away
-MetLife stadium sucks for atmosphere compared to the old Giants Stadium so playing there is a mistake for Syracuse, Rutgers or anyone else.
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If you are insistent on an NYC presence, why not do more Yankee Stadium / Citi Field games – its not like you are dealing with teams that will give you conflicts for October dates anymore.
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Syracuse U is 250 miles from the Empire State Building in midtown Manhattan. SU has a NYC presence through whatever number of alumni are in NYC or the immediate area. Not all that different than Penn State or Michigan have a NYC presence, though alums. Syracuse basketball has had a NYC presence through the old Big Least. Syracuse has never been and will never be a NYC area football team.
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Most people in the country probably have no idea that Penn St, Maryland and Boston College are roughly the same/slightly shorter distance to NYC than Syracuse is.
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Wow, just wow, Brady Hoke.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/fireable-offense-brady-hoke-140727469.html
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A lot of it sounds like the writer just wants Brady Hoke gone. I remember Hines Ward in the 1995 Peach Bowl. UGA’s QB was injured so Hines Ward had to switch positions and play QB. He was hobbling around every play. He hit 31 of 59 for 413 yards with 469 yards total offense and nearly led UGA to big upset over Virginia. A hobbling WR playing QB holds the UGA record for passing yards and attempts in a game as well as the Peach Bowl total offense record.
Sounds like someone should have been more aware of what was going on with the Michigan QB after the head hit, but the hobbling is up to the coach and player.
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What’s wrong with Michigan
The cause of decreased demand at Michigan is not that ticket prices are too high. The cause is the on-field product isn’t worth four hours of any busy college kid’s life right now. And getting spanked by power teams (and Utah) doesn’t feel good. The effect of losing is decreased demand and thus empty seats. You start to win, they’ll resume attending. At whatever profit-maximizing price you want to charge.
http://regressing.deadspin.com/michigans-problem-isnt-commercialism-michigans-problem-1639616721/+kylenw
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Update on Dodgers TV network problems:
http://online.wsj.com/articles/resistance-to-dodgers-channel-sends-message-on-pricing-1412013171
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http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11617725/fcc-votes-drop-sports-blackouts-nfl-says-change
The FCC dropped its sports blackout rule. The NFL says it doesn’t plan to change its policy.
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Collegiate sports: realigned revenues
“Everyone thinks the Big 12 broke up because Texas was pursuing their own network. Well, we were pursuing our own network as well,” he [Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman] said, although adding that Nebraska never reached the point of negotiating with any broadcaster.
Nebraska athletics ended this past year with $93 million in earned revenue, up about 25 percent from 2008, and it’s among the at least two dozen athletic departments nationwide running a surplus. Even by the most conservative estimates, the athletic department should see a substantial influx of money, especially after 2017. But Perlman said there are no big projects in the works for spending that money, aside from possibly adding more sports.
[snip]
Colorado received only $3.4 million from the Pac-12 in 2011-12, but that jumped substantially after the conference signed its 12-year, $3 billion media rights deal with Fox and ESPN. This past year, the school received about $20.4 million from the Pac-12, according to preliminary figures released by the athletic department. That figure is slated to increase 5.1 percent each year. And DiStefano said if the Pac-12 can ever get a deal done with DirecTV, each school should receive an extra $3 million to $4 million a year
[snip]
Last year’s operating revenue for the Utah athletic department was $55 million, which is exactly double what it was six years ago. Even ticket sales have risen by two-thirds as fans have been drawn to games with more prominent Pac-12 opponents.
Article includes TCU, WV, and [redacted].
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11592735/financial-winners-ncaa-conference-realignments-begin-take-shape
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Interesting article.
Just now got the “redacted!”
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http://www.cnbc.com/id/102037057
The FCC is considering banning the word “Redskins” from TV and radio.
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Fascist Communication Commission?
That they are even considering it is very disturbing. (and I’ve made it clear on here I think the Redskins should change their name).
Its not just the freedom of speech issue. Its the government using its power to force people to do things (beyond stopping crimes, paying taxes, etc.).
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How seriously they consider it is debatable. This is in response to a petition from an activist, so they have to consider it but it doesn’t mean they’re a significant chance of them doing anything.
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Its kind of a no-lose action by those opposed to the use of racist slurs as team names, since win or lose it generates misleading characterizations like the one above, and in the long shot that the FCC decides that the Native American version of the N-word is not appropriate speech for use on the public airwaves, that would pretty much be game, set, match on Washington changing their name.
My alma mater used to have the same name, but when I came back from a decade teaching in Oz, I found that they had become the “Redhawks.” I don’t know what a Redhawk is, but as long as the ASPCA have bigger fish to fry than animal mascot names, I reckon it was a safe pick, and didn’t require much reformatting of any logos or documents.
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http://www.bigten.org/genrel/100114aaa.html
The B10 announced a plan for increasing student-athlete benefits as a result of P5 autonomy being approved.
The Big Ten will work to implement the following proposals through individual institutional action, conference-wide action or under the NCAA autonomy governance structure:
• Cost of Education: Redefine full grant-in-aid to meet a student-athlete’s cost of education, as determined by the federal government.
• Multi-Year Scholarships: Guarantee all scholarships. If a student-athlete is no longer able to compete, for whatever reason, there should be no impact on institutions’ commitment to deliver an undergraduate education.
• Lifetime Educational Commitment: Ensure that scholarships are available for life. If a student-athlete leaves a university for a professional career before graduating, whether the career materializes, and regardless of its length, the scholarship will be honored after his or her playing days are complete.
• Medical Insurance: Provide improved, consistent medical insurance for student-athletes.
The Big Ten has also agreed to address additional student-athlete welfare issues including, but not limited to, health and safety, time demands and comprehensive academic support by way of a “Resolution” that creates a specific pathway and timeline for implementation.
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Would the guaranteed scholarship count toward scholarship limits of the student-athlete is no longer playing, or is the scholarship removed from the 85 limit but still honored?
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Currently, for those who use up their eligibility in four years the school is allowed (if they chose to) to continue that scholarship for a fifth year and not count against the limit. I’m sure it would simply be an extension of that rule.
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/01/ohio-state-attendance-michigan
It looks like there will be a shake up in the national attendance rankings.
MI has been #1 for 16 straight years and 39 of 40. However, they are currently #3:
1. OSU 106,761
2. TAMU 104,298
3. MI 104,113
4. LSU 101,460
5. AL 101,316
PSU is “only” averaging 99,806.
MI averaged 111,592 last year. B10 games normally should help them, but MSU and OSU are on the road. They only have PSU, IN and UMD left.
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I question TAMU’s staying power at the 104k range. If they slip into mediocrity I can see that dropping. They struggled to sell out at the previous capacity in the low to mid 80’s.
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that’s true for most any program. Are you suggesting othewise?
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FrankTheAg – I am suggesting that A&M added a significant number of seats incrementally. Outside of the SEC inauguration A&M was not at its prior capacity. I would say the same thing about other schools that made a big jump in capacity in a short time frame. I would put PSU in that category. 107 to 110k is probably too many seats for the location of that school as it is tougher to expect fans to make a 3 plus hour drive when the program has down years.
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Kevin, you are correct about prior attendance. Most all schools have an attendance boost when winning. But Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State and Baylor do not travel well. Local papers were full of the news that Baylor bought 2500 tickets, an all time record for the Bears, as visitors to the Longhorn game. SEC schools travel much better. LSU will have 2500 fans tailgating, can’t get in the gate because the tickets were sold out even this year when the Bayou Bengals are not having one of their best seasons. Old Miss-A&M will probably set a new State of Texas attendance record at something north of capacity, 106,500. Dallas Cowboys have the existing record in Jerry World. Point is that most all SEC schools travel much better than many of A&M’s old conference mates so that helps a lot. Plus A&M is turning out about eight to ten thousand grads annually so future looks not so bad there too.
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Wes – the SEC visitor ticket allotment is roughly 8500. I understand that the Big XII’s is under 3000.
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I thought it was a bad idea that Texas went from 80 to 100k when they didn’t have a long history of sellouts (sellouts for big games, but often 1-3k below capacity for 2 or 3 games a year), but they have pretty much filled it. There may be enough demand with the growth in Texas as long as the price is right.
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Bullet, see my post above about traveling visitors. Longhorn fans are very loyal, even in down years. If you had visitors of Ohio State, Iowa, Nebraska and Minnesota rather than Baylor, Iowa State, West Virginia and TCU I am guessing DKR would sell out for the former.
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A&M’s average will probably rise this year (haven’t played any of the 3 conference home games yet), but won’t reach a very high total attendance, with only 6 home games in total this year.
Next year, official capacity will be reduced to 102,500. I’m not sure how much extra capacity there will be, but this season will likely be the highest average for awhile.
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Looks like TAMU will still be in the top five even next year. Since the stadium is already sold out to season ticket holders. LSU may set an unbeatable record this year.
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LSU will do better in the future. The home SEC schedule next season will include Florida, Auburn, A&M, and Arkansas.
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LSU has an excellent home schedule for fan interest next year. But also means you will be on the road both Mississippi schools and Bama. Is Georgia a road game also?
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Wes – LSU’s rotating SEC East game next season is at South Carolina. LSU also travels to Syracuse OOC.
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Direct TV and NFL renew exclusive Sunday Ticket agreement. This keeps the AT&T merger in play.
https://tv.yahoo.com/news/directv-reaches-agreement-nfl-sunday-211327984.html
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DirecTV seems to be wrapping up all its deals. Longhorn Network contract will be finalized by the end of October according to the AD. Since these others are being completed, I’m guessing ESPN/Disney is probably about done (current deal ends 12/31) and, if anything like other deals, will include more of ESPN’s new products.
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What changes are happening in the LHN contract? It still had a long period before it expired.
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Longhorn Network is not on DirecTV yet. Its the Disney/DirecTV contract that expires 12/31/14.
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So it’s the ESPN contract…
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Saw an article a few days ago that said ATT/DTV was kind of flying under the radar. Interest groups were fighting the Comcast/Time Warner deal but not utilizing resources on ATT/DTV. Basically everyone hates Comcast.
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I saw speculation immediately after the ATT/DTV effort was announced that suggested it might distract attention from Comcast/TimeWarner, but it seems that opponents of the Comcast/TimeWarner deal have not taken the bait.
Definitely for New Media enterprises, Comcast/TimeWarner is the more important deal in terms of the numbers of people getting their broadband internet from a single ISP … especially given that Comcast as an ISP has an established track record of working to charge the content providers for providing the same internet carriage that they are already charging their household customers to provide as a service.
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http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/michigan-brade-hoke-dave-brandon-ole-miss-alabama-cfb-week-6-preview-audible-093014
MI interviewed Kevin Sumlin and turned him down before hiring Brady Hoke (see 39:00). Oops.
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http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/world-ranking
Latest Times World University Rankings are out. Apparently noted in lots of places. I saw the link after seeing articles from the UK and from Australia talking about how many universities they had ranked. Also saw one article from Israel.
Top 12:
1
California Institute of Technology (Caltech) United States
2
Harvard University United States
3
University of Oxford United Kingdom
4
Stanford University United States
5
University of Cambridge United Kingdom
6
Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) United States
7
Princeton University United States
8
University of California, Berkeley United States
9
Imperial College London United Kingdom
9
Yale University United States
11
University of Chicago United States
12
University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) United States
By conference ranked in the top 400
Big 10 14/14
Pac 12 11/12
ACC 10/14
Big 12 5/10
SEC 6/14
AAC 5/12
MWC 4/12
MAC 2/13
CUSA 1/13
SB 0/11
Ind 1/4
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Top ranked by conference
Big 10 Chicago 11 (Michigan 17 if you are only counting sports members)
Pac 12 Stanford 4
ACC Duke 18
Big 12 Texas 28
SEC Vanderbilt 96
AAC USF, Cincinnati 276-300
MWC Hawaii, New Mexico 251-275
MAC UMass 91
CUSA Rice 69
Notre Dame was 86
And in the top 200 (which are specifically numbered, Big 10 has 13/14, Pac 12 9/12, ACC 8/14, SEC 3/14, Big 12 2/10, MAC 2/13, CUSA 1/13.
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On the heels of the Michigan (and other) apearent injury mishandling.
http://time.com/3455884/high-school-football-death/
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Should Brady Hoke lose his coaching job at Michigan perhaps a big part of WHY could be talent. Giving credit to a lack of talent a coach with a history of being able to recruit really, really well could logically be at the top of the want list. And with the recruiting talent beds being in Texas and Florida, a coach with inroads and contacts in the south could do for Michigan what it needs to be very competitive again. Mack Brown is arguably the very best recruiting coach available and he enjoyed many a ten win seasons at UT and UNC. He had very few seasons with less than eight wins. Michigan could pay well. Art Briles does more with less than any coach in the country and has a personal relationship with most of the Texas high school coaches. Mullen at Mississippi certainly knows the south and Mississippi and Florida for sure. But the unspoken candidate, who sure knows how to win in the B1G is Bieliema (sp?) who would definitely be expensive. Think he is making five million a year now at Razorback U. Opinions?
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I don’t think any of those Coaches you’ve listed are realistic for Michigan. Mack Brown is similar to Lloyd Carr in his last few years. Tired and under-performing. Bielema is a gaffe a minute. He’s not Michigan material. I would think the likely candidates would come from the NFL or maybe a guy like Schiano. There a not a lot of great,obvious candidates currently in FBS. I think Dan Mullen would be the clubhouse leader for Florida.
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An NFL fallen angel type a la Pete Carroll when he got hired by USC? Josh McDaniel might be a good fit as he has spawned from the Belichick and Saban coaching trees. Grew up in N.E. Ohio – Canton. Would Tom Brady put in a good word? My only fear is that the New England receiving corp has usually resembled 3 or 4 Sam McGuffies on the field at the same time.
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Wes Haggard,
“Should Brady Hoke lose his coaching job at Michigan perhaps a big part of WHY could be talent. Giving credit to a lack of talent a coach with a history of being able to recruit really, really well could logically be at the top of the want list.”
Recruiting is the one thing Hoke has done well according to the recruiting services.
Scout team rankings for MI:
(Hoke was hired in 1/2011)
2011 – #29 by total points with only 19 recruits, but #19 by average stars
2012 – #4 with 25 recruits
2013 – #2 with 27 recruits
2014 – #27 by total points with only 15 recruits, but #11 by average stars
“Opinions?”
Of those you listed, only Mullen is a name I’ve seen mentioned by the media.
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From FOX mentioning Mullen, Mack Brown and Schiano. But not Briles, would would get maximum effort from the players.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/hot-seats-michigan-florida-coaching-carousel-dan-mullen-les-miles-jim-harbaugh-top-10-100214
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http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-baseball/24732506/mlb-to-test-new-pace-of-game-rules-in-arizona-fall-league
In the Arizona Fall League, which begins play next week, MLB will test the following rule changes/rule enforcements, per a league press release:
•Batter’s Box Rule: The batter shall keep at least one foot in the batter’s box throughout his at-bat, unless one of a series of established exceptions occurs, in which case the batter may leave the batter’s box but not the dirt area surrounding home plate. (Exceptions include a foul ball or a foul tip; a pitch forcing the batter out of the batter’s box; “time” being requested and granted; a wild pitch or a passed ball; and several others.)
•No-Pitch Intentional Walks: In the event a team decides to intentionally walk a batter, no pitches shall be thrown. Instead, the manager shall signal to the home plate umpire with four fingers, and the batter should proceed to first base to become a runner.
•20-Second Rule [AT 17 SALT RIVER FIELDS HOME GAMES ONLY]: A modified version of Rule 8.04, which discourages unnecessary delays by the pitcher, shall apply. Rule 8.04 requires the pitcher to deliver the ball to the batter within 12 seconds after he receives the ball with the bases unoccupied. The penalty prescribed by Rule 8.04 for a pitcher’s violation of the Rule is that the umpire shall call “Ball.”
Saw another article saying they would limit trips to the mound to 3 except for change of pitcher. Kind of like the 3 timeout rule in football. Average length of game has gone from 2:33 in 1981 to 3:02 last year. They definitely have to fix that.
Not sure a similar dynamic isn’t working in football. Between TV timeouts, more time with injuries (maybe more injuries, but they are definitely more careful with the players nowadays) and passing attacks that extend the clock, college games are often 4 hour affairs. They no longer fit easily in a 3 hour time slot.
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“Average length of game has gone from 2:33 in 1981 to 3:02 last year. They definitely have to fix that.”
Eliminate Yankee v Red Sox (move one to the NL). That’ll cut that increase dramatically.
They were also talking about reduced time between innings. Wonder if they ran that by media partners?
Can we reduce the down the time for change of possession, after kick offs, scores, extra points, etc in FB, too?
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NFL and refs can’t even agree on the rules after the games are over. Sounds like NFL is bowing to public opinion and pointing fingers at the refs. Refs are saying league officials are full of it. Happened on 2 separate calls.
Clear example that Goodell is clueless and needs to go.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/chiefs/2014/10/02/referee-association-says-nfl-graded-abdullah-flag-as-correct/16602205/
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http://mgoblog.com/content/not-michigan
MI fans may be boycotting the UMD game in November.
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http://www.elevenwarriors.com/college-football/2014/10/41222/maryland-sells-out-its-54000-seat-stadium-for-first-time-since-2008
UMD has sold out their stadium for the OSU game this weekend, their first sellout since 2008. It remains to be seen how many are OSU fans, but OSU did return part of their allotment (StubHub is cheaper, I’ve heard).
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NYT on the rise and decline of the Big Ten:
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This article is way overdue, and certainly not the first of its kind. I think research proves this reality has been in play since the 70s & de-segregation. Since the 80s, it’s pretty obvious that Florida has and continues to be the most effective prep football state – Miami, UF, & FSU have 11 AP NCs between them.
Now if typical homer fans of certain conferences, programs would just shut up and realize the riches & built in advantages they have cannot be denied – we can talk about how the underdogs can elevate themselves in more meaningful ways. We can also discuss the reality of per capita talent & how it translates into a viable landscape. For example, the Pac12 has also struggled since the early 70s – USC has won all 3 minus 1 AP NCs & this is in part because of footprint talent – not much better than the BIG & they get to host the marquee bowl game between the 2 conferences. Ca is not on par with per capita talent of the typical Southeastern state & feeding much of the truly sprawled Pac12 is a tall task. States like Oregon, Wash, Colorado & even Arizona will struggle to produce per capita talent like the Southeast & Tx due to weather as well. AZ has too many black out months of development like much of the colder states – unbearably hot! The Pac12 region also has the sort of landscapes and culture that lead youth to alternative sports.
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So does college football risk becoming a sharply regionalized sport, with a resulting decline in interest, if the gap between the SE states/Texas and the rest of the nation continues to widen?
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College FB has always been regional, with a national sub plot for those who prove to be the stronger in their regions. It is the over riding national focus (from before the season even starts) that threatens to marginalize large segments and poses the larger risk to the strong regional/local support many schools get yearly (even when it seems a bit irrational). There have always been stronger regions, but it was Alabama, UT, USC, etc. (or the occasional team that upset them and had a particular great year) that was the focus, not the region as a primary reason.
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During the ’80’s the B10 compensated by being richer and being able to pull more talent from elsewhere than it lost from its footprint to schools elsewhere (the memory of Jim Crow being strong in the South still helped as well).
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http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11631357/study-says-26-27-potential-concussions-unreported-college-football
Players only report about 1 in 27 possible concussions. OL are the worst about hiding it.
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Well AZ’s defeat of Oregon certainly diminishes the already suffering perception of the BIG.
What happens if Neb runs the table, topped off with a convincing victory in the BIG CCG?
The way things continue to go – I see them getting left out of the playoffs if the above scenario manifests, which would have been unthinkable 10 years ago. If they lose in East Lansing, the BIG CCG winner is quite likely left out of the playoffs.
In fact, I can’t imagine an undefeated Neb being shut out of the playoffs if they were still in the Big12.
But, crazy things happen in CF – no doubt. I think it’s quite possible the Pac12 will eat each other alive. Conference familiarity, esp in the Pac12 the past decade, rears upsets.
Wash St. did lose to Rutgers, yet kept pace with Oregon. Something tells me the Spartans, at this point, would like a redo against the Ducks, the second half melt down does in fact look regrettable – so go the factors of non-conference familiarity & match ups.
AZ needed a miracle against visiting Cal, who was losing momentum fast against Northwestern before winning by 7 in Evanston. I’d take NW against Cal on a neutral field – they seem to reversing a trend of quick starts then conference slips.
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gfunk,
“Well AZ’s defeat of Oregon certainly diminishes the already suffering perception of the BIG.”
Does it? Maybe it hurts MSU. Nobody else played Oregon.
“What happens if Neb runs the table, topped off with a convincing victory in the BIG CCG?”
They make the playoff, 100% guaranteed.
The SEC E and P12 N have no undefeated teams left. The B12 is down to 3 and they all have to play each other. The ACC is down to 2, and there’s no chance GT stays undefeated (even FSU has looked beatable). The P12 S has 2 undefeated teams left for now, but AZ has been shaky and UCLA hasn’t looked great every game either. The SEC W is full of undefeated teams, but there are so many good teams there it may be tough for 1 to stay perfect.
The point is, there aren’t going to be a bunch of undefeated conference champs this year. A 13-0 NE would certainly get in the playoff. However, NE isn’t going to go undefeated so this is a moot discussion.
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I said the Pac12 could shoot themselves in the foot. But if the other p4 conferences each have and undefeated team, Neb as well – BIG is likely being left out.
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When’s the last time 4 P5 conferences had undefeated champs?
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2004 and 2009 come the closest in recent history.
2004:
12-0 USC
12-0 Oklahoma
12-0 Auburn
11-0 Utah
11-0 Boise St.
Obviously 2 non-power teams there, but 5 undefeated teams in total, with Utah in the top 4/5.
2009:
13-0 Alabama
13-0 Texas
12-0 Cincinnati
12-0 TCU
I’m not sure how you handle the Big East. Is Cincinnati considered a power team? Probably not, but that only would have been 3 teams anyway.
If it came down to an undefeated Nebraska in the Big Ten in either of these years, they naturally would have made it in above Utah/Boise/Cinci/TCU. Regardless, I am not sure there has been a year with 4 undefeated teams prior to the bowl games, certainly not at a point where there has been a clearly defined group of power conference teams.
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OK, this isn’t the year that’s happening. Then again, the B10 won’t have an undefeated champ either.
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Posting the Map Frank linked to on Twitter:
Some awards:
The Award for Programs Solidifying Areas With More Cattle than People: TIE: Wyoming, Nevada
Award for Least Surprising Result: TIE: New England, not caring about college football; New York with a healthy Notre Dame interest.
In seriousness, there is a tremendous amount of recency bias on here. Alaska preferring Oregon to Washington is one. Oregon’s deep spread in CA, Montana, and elsewhere is another. Same with Miss State taking most of Mississippi (over Ole Miss). New Mexico also has a nice size land area of fans.
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Definitely some interesting discussion of Big 10 territory in the article.
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I wonder if IU is like Cal and doesn’t have a football facebook page.
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@Wainscott
‘The Award for Programs Solidifying Areas with more cattle than people: Tie:Wyoming, Nevada’
Not so fast, my friend!
Wyoming-582,658 people/1,270,000 cattle
Nevada-2,790,136 people/ 455,000 cattle
http://www.cattlerange.com/cattle-graphs/all-cattle-numbers.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population
🙂
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It said areas, not states. A lot of the population of people in Nevada is in Vegas … while people outnumber cattle in Las Vegas & Reno, and while there’s more cattle in Montana than in Nevada, there still will big chunks of Nevada where there are more cattle than people.
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Love the data points, but Bruce makes a good point that we have to control for the Metro-Vegas area.
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The map is based on Facebook “likes”. I root for Rutgers, Wisconsin (son alum) and Florida State (another son alum). I have never hit a Facebook like for any of them, though I know that my oldest son has liked UW. In the NY TImes survey, RU was first by a substantial amount, then Notre Dame, Penn State and Michigan. Syracuse was something around 6th in NYC interest. The Facebook survey has Cuse as very popular in NYC area. Both the Times survey and TV ratings show little support for Cuse. Obviously, RU is the closest thing to a local school and NYC is part of the recruiting tour for RU. ND has a national footprint and the “subway” alums in NY, the rest are alumni.
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http://sports.newsday.com/long-island/data/college/college-football/coaches-salaries/
An up-to-date searchable and sortable CFB coaches’ salary database. It includes length of the contract and incentives. The one negative is that the sort function is alphabetic not numerical, so $500,000 shows up before $4,000,000.
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Top 5 for 2014:
1. Saban – $6.9M
2. Richt – $5.48M
3. Stoops – $5.25M
4. Sumlin – $5M
5. Strong – $5M
UGA fans aren’t going to keep accepting these good but not great teams with a coach making that much.
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Actually I think Weiss will make the most this year! Isn’t Notre Dame still paying him?
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bullet, I’ve seen claims that Weiss is being paid $4.6M per year, which would be top ten but apparently not top five.
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A map of CFB fan base footprints, using gradations of color to show the strength of the support. They zoom in and discuss multiple regions of interest, many involving B10 teams.
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Busts up a lot of popular myths from this forum. Supposedly the B1G already had Missouri because Kansas owned KC, Illinois had a big presence in STL, and Nebraska and Iowa took care of northern Missouri. That map says not so much. Mizzou dominates the state and even bleeds over and takes East St. Louis in Illinois as well.
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Might that not be another example of “recent-ism” – solid MU performance, SEC membership, Illini, etc. under-performing? A similar phenomenom occurred during the Greatest-Show-On-Turf era when Rams games would displace Bears games in Peoria, Champaign and Springfield. I think my myth regarding Missouri focused not so much on who the casual fan followed, but on who had recruiting procilivity.
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If by “recent” you mean the last dozen years or so, then ok, sure. Mizzou had a pretty bad dryspell in the 80s and 90s. But they were hugely popular pre-1985 and are popular again post 2000ish.
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Facebook maps do not “bust up” any “myths.” The number of issues that would exist in relying on such data as conclusive or even useful proof of anything are legion.
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fair enough, we don’t know for sure if the data is legit. but it might be.
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Even if its legit, its not in any way representative, its not controlled for critical factors, nor does it show what level of fan will “Like” a team or school on Facebook. That’s just some of the issues.
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http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/dave-brandon-sends-snarky-email-back-alum
This seems like a bad sign for MI. The AD really shouldn’t get snippy with alumni in email.
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Not clear if that is valid, though. Original email was never supplied, and that particular poster has photoshopped things before (and as a mod noted the email would be from 2013, which undermines some of the validity)
All that being said, I am somewhat surprised that DB did this (if we accept it as true) given the fact he was a CEO and should/would know better. However, this supposedly isn’t the first time he has said something along these lines to complaining alumni/fans.
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Those silly judges …
https://twitter.com/JakeCorman
Senator Jake Corman @JakeCorman
Today, the NCAA’s motion to dismiss my case was denied by Commonwealth Court – the validity of the Consent Decree remains in question.
6:43 PM – 3 Oct 2014
Comm Court: the NCAA “cannot dismiss themselves from litigation by declaring the Consent Decree valid” and simply agreeing to follow the law
6:45 PM – 3 Oct 2014
Commonwealth Court: “the Consent Decree’s validity is the very issue that this Court has concluded has far-reaching implications”
6:49 PM – 3 Oct 2014
BTW, in case you missed it yesterday:
Harris supervisor, Boal Mansion CEO Christopher Lee charged with child pornography, exploitation
http://www.centredaily.com/2014/10/02/4384564_harris-supervisor-and-boal-mansion.html
Boalsburg is a few miles from State College. This article doesn’t mention it, but he was indicted by a federal grand jury.
It’s such a small world. He once lived with a recent PSU BoT member …
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More court silliness. Even though “there is no other group of people”, apparently discovery in the consent decree case is scheduled to be completed by November 7, 2014, with trial scheduled to begin on January 6, 2015. I actually find the reality of this essentially accidental lawsuit a bit hard to believe myself. Maybe truth really is stranger than fiction?
Judge disregards NCAA, grants extension
http://www.centredaily.com/2014/10/22/4417518_judge-disregards-ncaa-grants-extension.html
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How is the court silly? Pennsylvania passed a law saying their state university and the NCAA couldn’t do a consent decree spending PSU’s money out of state. The court didn’t grant the NCAA a summary judgement, which is typical. They granted a 1 week extension due to an attorney’s conflict, also pretty typical.
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When the victims were all Pennsylvania children, that part of the consent decree struck me as absolutely absurd and the most massive overreach of the NCAA in that case. What’s silly is the NCAA fighting this instead of just settling without agreeing that the consent decree wasn’t binding.
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> What’s silly is the NCAA fighting this instead of just settling
> without agreeing that the consent decree wasn’t binding.
Both the validity of the Freeh report and the consent decree are crucial legally for those fighting for them. The plan almost worked.
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It was TIC.
I believe it’s been clear where everything is headed for a couple years now, although the idea of testing the validity of the consent decree was an unexpected accident in this particular case, and this case has been moving remarkably quickly …
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Well if the NCAA is worried about the validity of the consent decree, this is a bad case to try it. Just settle and say neither side is admitting anything in the settlement documents.
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> Well if the NCAA is worried about the validity of the consent decree,
> this is a bad case to try it. Just settle and say neither side is admitting
> anything in the settlement documents.
I agree with your analysis, but I’m not sure that option is open to the NCAA. I believe that, as a consequence of the most recent machinations of the PSU BoT, Corman and McCord have said they wouldn’t accept a settlement. Of course, when the NCAA tried to end the suit by capitulating, Judge Covey said No, now we want to examine the consent decree.
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Today is probably the biggest football day in the history of Mississippi. Two top 12 match ups in Oxford and Starkville. It will be interesting to see how my attention-starved neighbors handle the spotlight.
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If Ole Miss manages to win as well, that game at the end of the season could be absolutely insane.
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Miss State held up their end. The Bulldogs have a once in a generation team for them that may end up being the best they’ve ever had. Dak Prescott should enter the Heisman discussion. He’s from my hometown and went to my high school.
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Ole Miss wins. I never thought I’d be happy about that. Apologies to Bamatab.
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This should be a huge weekend for a poll shakeup, but I wonder if so many teams lost that not much changes.
Losses: #2-4, 6, 14, 17, 18
In play: #5 vs #15 (#5 up big), #8 vs NR, #10 vs #19 (#10 up), #16 vs NR
AU should jump to #2. Will Baylor and ND jump up, though? How high do MS and MsSU climb? Does the MSU/NE winner get any credit?
And on a personal level, how much does #20 OSU climb? All of #14-19 could lose, but #25 TCU and NR Ole Miss both won big upsets and will probably jump OSU. I’ll guess they climb to about #18.
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Sorry, MS is #11.
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It will be interesting to see if the pollsters actually re-think everything instead of just shuffling their pre-season polls.
Not only did 5 of the top 8 lose for the first time ever and 6 of the 2nd 10 lose as well, every member of the top 20 but Auburn, Georgia and #20 Ohio St. was tested. FSU actually trailed much of the 1st half before pulling away. Baylor lead Texas as much as 28-0 after 2 4th Q TDs, but was even statistically. They won with 3 turnovers (1 a UT fumble on the 1 that would have tied it in the last minute of the 1st half), a blocked FG returned for their 1st TD and 2 4th down conversions on TD drives (one on their own 33). ND was back and forth all day with Stanford, MSU got challenged late by NU and the MS schools beat higher ranked teams.
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Welp, I’m not sure I’ll be watching another Michigan game this year.
I hope the stadium falls well below 100k. There has to be a clear message that this is unacceptable. I don’t care how it looks to fire a coach midseason. This team quite possibly already has the only two wins it will get all year. At this point you have to think of the program’s future, name an interim, and start getting serious about a new AD and head coach.
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On the bright side, Blue might not need to cover a Les Miles buyout.
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I think those Cajuns know that the constant flow of underclassmen to the NFL had to catch up sooner or later. Believe their wait until next y ear will be a valid battle cry.
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swesleyh – you would be wrong. My spoiled fellow Tiger fans are in complete meltdown mode. Miles does have a buyout, only if he goes to Michigan, and some people down here would be willing to chip in for Michigan to take him. I’m not one of those fans. LSU will have a rough season (7-5 or 6-6). Most realistic fans thought LSU would be and 8-4 team this season after losing a 3000 yard passer, a 1000 yard runner, and two 1000 yard receivers, but didn’t see Ole Miss and Miss State putting together historic seasons, or the lack of OL and DT development & depth.
This is Miles’ 10th season in Baton Rouge and his next win will be #100 at LSU. That being said, Les is under appreciated down here and this may finally be the right time for Michigan to get him. His son is a senior who is a decent QB, but not P-5 material. He is also a very good pitcher, but not SEC material. I could see Les taking the job, if offered, and Manny going to Michigan to play baseball. His younger children would be a consideration as Baton Rouge is really the only home they have ever known. Also, I doubt Miles would take less that the $4.6mm he is receiving down here. His staff makes over $5mm combined. Michigan might choke on that kind of money, but they could afford it.
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I don’t think paying that would be a problem. Michigan decided to finally pay decent numbers for Mattison and Nussmeier. Hoke makes 4M (which is insane). If they are willing to pay 4 for Hoke, who wasn’t a guarantee by any stretch, I can imagine they’d pay 5+ for someone who has a title and the general resume of Miles. My real question is what would they be willing to pay if either Harbaugh brother was willing to listen.
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Alan, sounds like your fans may be suffering from the Mack Brown itchies-twitches. Unhappy with playing for two national titles in ten years. Really chapped with only eight or nine win season. Get rid of that dang loser and bring in a new winner. Blame every thing bad on Mack Brown, especially missing out on first rate quarterback recruiting. How is that working out so far this year.
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The topsy-turvy world of college football. Michigan (well, no surprise there), Alabama, USC, Oklahoma and TAMU all go down. Notre Dame could well end up in the top four by year’s end.
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Week 6 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 7
B1G is first Big 5 conference with no undefeated teams left in play
FBS football = 11 of 64 remain (8.73%) : 2 more will be gone in Week 7
.
…
.
Big 5 = 9 of 64 remain (14.06%)
ACC —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (5-0, 3-0)
Costal : Georgia Tech (5-0, 2-0)
Florida State @ Syracuse |||| Duke @ Georgia Tech
B12 —- 2 of 10 or 20.00% remain
Baylor (5-0, 2-0) + TCU (4-0, 1-0)
TCU @ Baylor
B1G —- 0 of 14 or 0.00% remain
East : NONE after Week 5 West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 2 of 12 or 16.67% remain
North : NONE after week 6
South : Arizona (5-0, 2-0)
Southern Cal @ Arizona
SEC —- 3 of 14 or 21.43% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (5-0, 2-0) + Auburn (5-0, 2-0) + Mississippi (5-0, 2-0)
Auburn @ Mississippi State |||| Mississippi @ Texas A&M
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 2 of 62 remain (3.23%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain or 00.00%
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain or 00.00%
CUSA : Marshall (5-0, 1-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Notre Dame 5-0 // 1 of 4 or 25.00%
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3
Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4
SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5
B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6
B1G West and PAC North
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duffman,
FBS football = 11 of 64 remain (8.73%) : 2 more will be gone in Week 7
There are 128 (IIRC) FBS teams. 64 is the P5 and not including ND.
There are 10 (of 128) undefeated FBS teams left, or 7.81%.
There are 8 undefeated P5 teams left, or 12.5%.
There are 9 if you include ND, or 13.85%.
PAC —- 2 of 12 or 16.67% remain
That should be “1 of 12 or 8.33% remain.”
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Brian, I usually cut and paste from previous week, then update. Thanks for catching the PAC error as I was waiting on the Utah vs UCLA game then forgot to finish it.
For the MAC I put 11 instead of 13 for some reason (think I cut and pasted the AAC) so that should be 13 not 11. That should make the numbers right
64 teams = Big 5
64 teams = everybody else
As for Notre Dame, they were put in the IND so they must suffer the fates of BYU, Army, and Navy. Last year I think I mentioned putting them in the ACC because of the 5 game deal and folks made an issue so I put it back to this way as that is how it lists on ESPN and other sites.
Will probably repost the corrected version below so I do not Cut n paste the same errors next week
Thanks again
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Hooray for the small private schools, TCU, Georgia Tech and Baylor. Hang in there guys.
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While it is fairly selective, Georgia Tech is a public school.
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UVA is the public school that really is a private one
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Well, UVa is a public school who _acts_ like a private school. Meanwhile, PSU & Pitt are essentially private schools now who act like publics.
Though the distinction is almost blurred; the percentage of their budget that comes from their respective state legislatures at all of UVa, PSU, and Pitt (and UMich & CU as well) is in the single digits now.
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Say what you want, but private schools do have incredible opportunities off the books & significant endowments can translate into incredible opportunities – Duke, Stanford, USC, etc – all have dominating traditions, various sports.
Thus you are not rooting for any Davids here. The 3 your cite also sit in 2 of the 5 best high school football states & some.
GT and Baylor also have decent enrollment numbers.
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With all these upsets, greater parity seems to have hit college football. Predicting the 4 playoff teams will suck up a lot of time. The contenders for the playoff should be:
1) any undefeated FBS team (there won’t be many; and the only viable path for a G5 team)
2) any 1 loss winner of a P5 championship game (SEC, PAC, BIG, ACC have a slight advantage; gotta believe that UT and OU would get special recognition if they win the B12…the other B12 teams will get stricter scrutiny and get relegated to the next tier)
3) any other 1 loss P5 team (SOS is the tie breaker here…and where the selection committee will likely spend a lot of time; SEC and PAC teams are better positioned this year; the lack of a CCG may actually help the B12 by making more teams as likely contenders for a playoff spot)
If they can’t determine 4 teams from that criteria, the selection will get very controversial.
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No matter what, the selection will be controversial in some regions. Book it.
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I don’t care what the NFL manages, or gets over promoted about. There is nothing to match college FB. What a crazy exciting day for multiple programs and fan bases! Some of those pushing a national perspective would rather dismiss many of them as irrelevant, or merely the supporting cast for the preferred brands. This is the excitement of CFB, not a four team invitational.
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http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/football/polls/coaches-poll/
Coaches Poll:
1. FSU
2. AU
3. Baylor
4. Ole Miss
5. ND
6. MS St
7. AL
8. MSU
9. OU
10. UGA
11. OR
12. TCU
13. AZ
14. TAMU
15. OSU
16. KSU
17. UCLA
18. OkSU
19. ECU
20. ASU
21. NE
22. Stanford
23. GT
24. MO
25. Clemson
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About what I expected, although I thought Mississippi St. would get more credit and might be #3.
Note that OU is ahead of unbeaten TCU and Oregon is ahead of unbeaten Arizona.
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So you should be happy with the AP poll.
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Nothing new here (re: polls), if you aren’t a helmet school (i.e. OU, tOSU, FSU, Bama), or a media darling (i.e. Oregon, Baylor, UCLA) you are ALWAYS at a serious disadvantage.
We’ll see how much “non-bias” the selection committee has come selection time.
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At the very least OU and TCU should be reversed. Hiss boo on the voters.
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
AP Poll:
1. FSU
2. AU
t3. MS St
t3. Ole Miss
5. Baylor
6. ND
7. AL
8. MSU
9. TCU
10. AZ
11. OU
12. OR
13. UGA
14. TAMU
15. OSU
16. OkSU
17. KSU
18. UCLA
19. ECU
20. ASU
21. NE
22. GT
23. MO
24, Utah
25. Stanford
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Anyone know why the Georgia-Missouri game time and TV has not been released? Anyone? Andy one?
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12pm ET on CBS.
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CBS just seems to take their time. It will start at noon.
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CBS put a 6 day hold on most of the SEC games pending the outcome of yesterday’s action.
Here’s the schedule.
http://www.secsports.com/article/11646977/oct-11-sec-football-tv-schedule-announced
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Thanks to all for the game time. ESPN CFB still has the game listed as TBA. Someone just missed posting the change.
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I just realized:
The loser of LSU/Arkansas could lose every game in their division and still go bowling. Has that happened before? It’s easier, granted, when there are only 6 teams in a division.
Also, that team may finish at the bottom of the SEC West yet win the B10 West if they were there instead.
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Article from San Antonio newspaper about the TV ratings problems for the Big 12 – and the fear that Fox will go after the B1G at the expense of the Big 12 and PAC 12.
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/columnists/tim_griffin/article/Anemic-TV-ratings-should-be-concern-for-Big-12-5799425.php
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Agree that Fox will go after the B1G put fail to see why that would be at the expense of the B12 and Pac 12. Fox needs more inventory so there are plenty of time slots to go around. I also think the B1G will leave some inventory with ESPN/ABC.
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If Fox grabs Big Ten games, causing the network to shift some of its over-the-air Big 12 games to FS1, that would lead to a ratings drop for the conference. While that wouldn’t make a financial difference in the short term (they’re still getting paid under the same contract), the lack of exposure could hurt negotiations for their next TV contract. Their recruiting could also diminish.
Of course, if Fox could use Big Ten games to successfully build up FS1, that might even out for them. Also, ESPN losing Big Ten games might lead to more Big 12 games in primetime on ABC, although ACC & Pac 12 games would probably benefit more (its hard to see ESPN favoring the current Big 12 nationally when the Pac 12 & ACC have a much bigger footprint.)
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The Big 12 is a dead conference walking at this point with their death sentence to be carried out when the GOR is over. That is why performance on the field matters so little in conference strength and stability. Unless Texas or Oklahoma are playing, the conference doesn’t bring in ratings. TCU’s win was great but probably hurts the conference more than helps.
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The article is subscription, so I don’t know specifically what they are talking about. There was an article on Sports Media Watch talking about Baylor/Iowa St. being low rated on Fox, but that’s the 2 traditionally smallest draws in the conference with Iowa St. having a rough year and it was a blowout.
Overall I’ve seen some apples to apples comparisons and the Big 12 is still getting better ratings than the Pac 12 or ACC and not that far behind the B1G. It is ahead of the Pac 12 and ACC in football attendance, both average and median. It is well ahead in both average and median athletic revenues. And with small population states other than Texas, its members aren’t attractive to conferences (i.e. SEC and B1G) heavily dependent on revenue from captive subscribers for their conference networks.
What should be of concern to all conferences is that ratings are on a downward trend and have been for several years.
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“…dependent on revenue from captive subscribers for their conference networks.”
As opposed to the a la carte offering of the LHN?
Every contract with broadcast/distribution companies is dependent on their subscriber numbers.
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Conference networks (and school networks) make a huge chunk of their money from people who will never watch them. These are tiny niche networks.
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My point was there is no real competitive model. The way you phrased your “captive” statement made it sound like there is a current and equally effective model that isn’t based on subscribership that the conferences (and schools) are choosing to ignore. Are you suggesting conference and school networks become over the air free channels?
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No, I’m just pointing out its a pretty bizarre model. At least with ESPN, etc., there is a pretty big audience. The conference (and individual school) sports networks get pretty good rates for a small niche.
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Which brings us back to whose network is it really. ESPN is the one with the “captive” audience for LHN and SECN, and are purchasing the rights. Seems like the model used for decades, just with dedicated outlet channels. I’m not sure what you find bizarre about it. The unusual is the ownership groups of BTN with basically half conference ownership, and P12N wholly owned. Neither of them have to satisfy Disney shareholder expectations.
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Its bizarre networks with tiny ratings (so small they don’t even measure) and only a tiny audience who ever watches it, commands such rates. Its financed overwhelmingly by people who will never use it. Its a market distortion.
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I’ll never watch a cooking show, a wife’s of wherever, a religion channel (although I’ve watched a few BYU games on BYU tv), music over TV, etc. But I get them, although my with hundreds of rarely even surfed by channels. Everyone is paying for the part they like and the rest is superfluous. Bundling is a cost savings in the long run for both consumers and creators/providers. If a more efficient model apears it will be adopted and become preeminent.
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Having experienced the BTN carriage fight in Ohio, they attracted the rate due to the threat of some appreciable share of their total audience taking their business to a different subscriber television system. Given that most of that audience wouldn’t have considered that move unless the bigger sports networks were on all of the available subscriber television systems, its more marginal value pricing than average value pricing.
While the rate may be set on a per subscriber basis, the negotiated outcome was driven not by a constant value per subscriber but by the incremental value of the entire subscriptions that the subscription television service stood to lose if they did not pick up the channel.
I was in one of those households at the time. Any service that offered (for various household members) Indians baseball, Browns football, Buckeye football, HBO and a particular one of those endless news channels would have trumped Time Warner if Time Warner was missing any Buckeye football game that some satellite TV service was making available.
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I just took a quick sample of the last three weeks of games in roughly the same time slot, it appears that (over the air) Fox games rate about the same as the cable ESPN games. The variance in audience sizes for each night is interesting. Also how low USC-BC did on 9/13.
Here’s the numbers (in millions of viewers) for the 7pm to 8pm EDT games:
9/27:
ND/Syracuse (ABC): 4.05
[redacted]/South Carolina (ESPN): 3.38
Baylor/ISU (FOX): 1.3
Duke/Miami (ESPN2): 1.16
UNC/Clemson (ESPNU): .68
9/20:
Clemson/FSU (ABC): 7.34
Mississippi St./LSU (ESPN): 3.47
Oklahoma/West Virginia (FOX): 3.22
Miami/Nebraska (ESPN2): 1.82
N. Illinois/Arkansas (ESPNU): .51
9/13:
Tennessee/Oklahoma (ABC): 3.76
Purdue/Notre Dame (NBC): 3.13
UCLA/Texas (FOX): 2.65
Southern Miss/Alabama (ESPN2): 1.78
USC/Boston College (ESPN): 1.75
UL-Monroe/LSU (ESPNU): .7
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/college-football-tv-ratings/
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ICYMI – NBA’s rights triple.
http://deadspin.com/what-the-nbas-insane-new-tv-deal-means-for-the-league-a-1642926274
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“…so the new deal represents a 180 percent increase in the amount of money flowing into the league’s coffers. By comparison, when the $930 million deal was signed in 2007, it represented only a 21 percent increase from the previous one.”
Yeah, that live sports media rights bubble sure is bursting…
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The NBA deal roughly covered the same time frame as the current Big Ten deal. The only person happier about this deal than Adam Silver is Jim Delany.
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Interesting way to think about the new NBA deal.
Doing the math, that means the NFL is getting paid $1.84 for every viewer. ESPN and TNT, meanwhile, will pay the NBA a whopping $5.04 per viewer per game—or 274% as much. Are NBA viewers worth that much more? The money has to come from somewhere, which means it’s on the Disney and Time Warner salespeople to convince advertisers basketball eyeballs have more value than those in the heads of football fans.
http://deadspin.com/espn-and-tnt-think-nba-broadcasts-are-worth-a-lot-more-1642795289
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Another take on the NBA deal-talks about worldwide mobile audience and new ways of selling content:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11653435/new-tv-deal-shows-league-unique-position
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Note that in: “Imagine a person in Beijing buying a season’s worth of a team’s games for his phone, or even just particular highlight packages, or maybe even for just a quarter of live action on the spot after following the game on Twitter. That’s all possible, and it’s not hard to visualize.”
… that person is likely already digitally in the US via a VPN, because Twitter is firewalled here in Beijing.
But translate it to a more widely followed social media like QQ, and it still applies. The one constant on a University campus in Beijing, even during the seven day “National Day” holiday break, is the constant sound of basketballs on the BBall courts.
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And the NFL could get similar numbers if it allowed cable channels to bid on its Sunday afternoon packages. NFL values broad exposure over pure payout (which is why TNF was moved to CBS, why the Super Bowl is not on cable, etc…)
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Updated version
Week 6 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 7
B1G is first Big 5 conference with no undefeated teams left in play
FBS football = 10 of 128 remain (7.813%) : 2 more will be gone in Week 7
.
…
.
Big 5 = 8 of 64 remain (12.50%)
ACC —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (5-0, 3-0)
Costal : Georgia Tech (5-0, 2-0)
Florida State @ Syracuse |||| Duke @ Georgia Tech
B12 —- 2 of 10 or 20.00% remain
Baylor (5-0, 2-0) + TCU (4-0, 1-0)
TCU @ Baylor
B1G —- 0 of 14 remain
East : NONE after Week 5 West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 1 of 12 or 8.33% remain
North : NONE after week 6
South : Arizona (5-0, 2-0)
Southern Cal @ Arizona
SEC —- 3 of 14 or 21.43% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (5-0, 2-0) + Auburn (5-0, 2-0) + Mississippi (5-0, 2-0)
Auburn @ Mississippi State |||| Mississippi @ Texas A&M
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 2 of 64 remain (3.125%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 13 remain
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain
CUSA : Marshall (5-0, 1-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Notre Dame 5-0 // 1 of 4 or 25.00%
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3
Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4
SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5
B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6
B1G West and PAC North
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@ Brian
Now I remember why I did this the way I did several years ago when it was the Big 6 and everybody else was to show the differentials between the 2 groups. Looking at this week where 1 has 8 and the other has 2 shows how 1 has advantages to staying undefeated longer as a whole. While putting Notre Dame back in the ACC for realistic reasons it is sort of nice to have 2 groups of 64 for balance.
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With College GameDay going to Mississippi and Mississippi State they have now broadcast from 62 campus sites. For the length of the show, interesting they are just about at the number 64. Overall they have showcased 77 teams which is well below the 128 FBS schools.
.
…
.
Power 5 schools who have yet to host College GameDay
ACC (5) : Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia, and Wake Forest
B1G (5) : Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Minnesota, Rutgers
B12 (3) : Baylor, Iowa State, and Kansas
PAC (2) : California and Washington State
SEC (0) : Mississippi schools were last 2
.
…
.
Non Power 5 schools who have hosted
IND : Notre Dame (8), BYU (1), and Army (1)
MWC : Air Force (3) and Boise State (1)
AAC : Houston (1)
MAC : Bowling Green (1)
.
…
.
4 non FBS schools have hosted if anybody is curious
North Dakota State in 2013 and 2014
Florida A&M in 2008
Penn in 2002
Williams in 2007
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Did Gameday feature Kansas and Mizzou back when they played at Arrowhead as top 10 teams? Forget what year that was offhand, 2007 maybe?
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http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2014/10/05/how-many-people-are-in-the-nielsen-tv-ratings-panel/310975/
How many people are in the Nielsen ratings, broken down by age, gender and influence.
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Texas universities are raising money.
http://giving.utexas.edu/campaign/
Last year Texas A&M set an all time record for a college for fundraising in a year with $740 million. As I recall Wisconsin was 2nd last year with around $500 million.
This year, its Texas, with $856 million as it concludes its multi-year $3 billion capital campaign.
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Stanford raised over $1 billion last year and set the record. A&M’s $740M isn’t even close to the record. Stanford has been breaking that annually for years.
Some of the Ivy League schools like Harvard and Columbia do quite well too. A&M probably broke the record for a public school. I could believe that.
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Some bits:
Stanford raised a shade more than a billion in 2012, not last year. Last year was 931m (http://cae.org/images/uploads/pdf/VSE-2013-Press-Release.pdf). Stanford is the beneficiary of obscene amounts of tech money, and will in future years have an endowment that approaches Harvard’s $31 billion.
Texas a&m set the record for public universities, previously held by Wisconsin (set in 2005). http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/texas-aggies/20130916-football-effect-texas-am-raises-record-740-million-almost-doubles-longhorns.ece)
Michigan and Northwestern have the highest single public and private (respectively) endowments after Stanford. Stanford’s is almost 3x higher, however.
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Among FBS schools, you mean. UT-system and A&M-system actually have bigger endowments than both (UT-system actually has more than Stanford).
HYPSM have bigger endowments than A&M-system, UMich, & Northwestern.
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I did mean FBS, but also wrote single to exclude counting multi-university systems.
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Keep in mind that a good portion of the UT endowment is related to the PUF (effectively oil and land royalties). Those funds are in lieu of larger State Funding . When you combine the PUF and State Funding it’s about 20% of UT’s budget which is similar to other Publics. UT’s non PUF endowment is about $6-7 billion. By contrast Michigan’s endowment is over $9 billion.
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Not exactly. Now the state didn’t have any money in 1876 so they gave the university what they thought was mostly worthless land in West Texas (that happened to sit on one of the major oil fields in the US) in lieu of $. UT (and A&M) do get some money from the Available University Fund, but that is only some of the PUF earnings and some of the institutions in the systems also get a piece of the AUF.
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Richard, the UT System has 141,000+ students. Stanford has 15,877, and their endowment is nearly as big as the entire UT System of nine universities and six health centers. Not really the same thing at all. Not even close. But you knew that. The level of spin on this board is beyond weird sometimes. Really.
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Andy:
What spin?
I’m laying out the facts. Obviously, I assumed that my readers have an IQ over 50 and can interpret data on their own.
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Wainscott, yes, I meant two years ago. Lost track of time. FWIW Stanford has raised nearly $10B in the last 14 years, not counting 2013-14. If 2013-14 at all keeps pace with the previous few years then the $10B mark should easily be passed over that 15 year period.
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http://www.bigten.org/genrel/100814aaa.html
The B10 announced that from now on, all athletes will get 4-year scholarships and can come back to school later if they leave for legitimate reasons.
Big Ten directors of athletics, senior woman administrators and faculty representatives met Oct. 6 and 7 at the conference headquarters in Rosemont, Ill., and agreed to ensure that any student-athlete recruited to a Big Ten institution through the offer of an athletic scholarship will be guaranteed the following throughout the course of their enrollment:
• The scholarship will neither be reduced nor cancelled provided he or she remains a member in good standing with the community, the university and the athletics department.
• If a student-athlete’s pursuit of an undergraduate degree is interrupted for a bona fide reason, that student-athlete may return to the institution at any time to complete his or her degree with the assistance of an athletic scholarship.
From some reporters, leaving to go pro early or for family reasons are two of the bona fide reasons the B10 will accept.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11667595/mark-emmert-ncaa-wish-list-newly-autonomous-power-5
Mark Emmert announces his wish list for P5 action now that they have autonomy.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2225369-missouri-sanctions-bout-between-fighters-with-down-syndrome-and-cerebral-palsy
In a world where we worry so much about head injuries, this story seems so odd. The Show Me state has sanctioned an MMA fight between a man with Down syndrome and a man with cerebral palsy.
Garrett is very highly functioning for someone with Down syndrome. He reads, but at or below a third-grade level, and has the cognitive ability of an eight- or nine-year-old. He will likely live with his parents as long as anyone can foresee.
And a state sanctioned this guy for MMA?
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Hard to see MMA being sanctioned at all. Street fighting in a cage. I can enjoy watching boxing, but not MMA.
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Hard to see MMA being sanctioned at all. Street fighting in a cage. I can enjoy watching boxing, but not MMA
Usually its the same commission sanctioning boxers and MMA fighters. I used to enjoy boxing, but overtime I’ve found MMA to be more enjoyable. I haven’t watched a boxing card in years.
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Rumors are swirling that Mizzou will play BYU and West Virginia in the next two or three years. This is in addition to already scheduled games vs UConn and Purdue. Also games with Memphis, Wyoming, and Arkansas State are scheduled over the next three or four years. So Missouri’s future schedules are finally starting to come together, although there are still a ton of open slots.
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West Virginia could use some more midwest exposure. Oh, wait…
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Duke is expanding its football stadium by 6000 seats and adding suites.
http://www.heraldsun.com/breakingnews/x711471908/LIVING-THE-DREAM
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maybe they want to join the SEC after all.
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At least Duke made the ACC title game, whereas….
http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/indiana/2014/10/08/iu-plans-to-enclose-south-end-zone-at-memorial-stadium/16947085/?from=global&sessionKey=&autologin=
And actually, in regards to another article on that Indystar page, I think IU’s location is at best a non-factor, and is actually somewhat of an asset since its probably a good deal warmer than Lafayette, South Bend, and the Michigan cities.
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In reading that article, it doesn’t sound like they plan to increase capacity so much as improve and expand on facilities for athletes (new, bigger locker room, etc). They didn’t change capacity much when they closed off the north end of the stadium because they removed some bleachers at the same time.
Besides, more seats would mean more tickets they can sell to OSU, PSU and MI fans. Revenue is revenue, after all.
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…you saying MSU fans are broke? :))
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For anybody handicapping, UGA’s Todd Gurley has been suspended indefinitely for a suspected violation of NCAA rules according to ESPN. Haven’t seen any other info. My guess is agent contact.
UGA’s 2nd and 3rd running backs, both good but not Gurley good, missed the Vanderbilt game due to injuries. Don’t know when they will be back.
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Speculation is he Manzielled and got paid for signing. Fanbase seems to be mad at UGA and NCAA. “If Cam Newton, Johnny Manziel and Jameis Winston (note a pattern-Heisman winners) can get away with things, Georgia should just play him” seems to be the most common reaction.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11671378/todd-gurley-georgia-bulldogs-suspended-indefinitely
250-300 authenticated signed jerseys showed up all at once. The question is if he got paid for them or not.
Noted autograph authentication company James Spence Authentication (JSA) provided certificates of authenticity to more than 250 Gurley-signed Georgia jerseys, according to ESPN’s Darren Rovell. ESPN verified the authentication through JSA’s website, which allows the purchaser of an authenticated item to type in the serial number on the card provided with the item and match it with the authenticator’s records.
Items with serial numbers L39251 to L39551 all showed up as Gurley-signed jerseys, meaning it was likely done at one time and sent in by the same person or company. Whether Gurley received money for them, however, is unknown.
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/09/todd-gurley-georgia-bulldogs-suspension
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From the article:
SI.com has learned that a person confirmed to Georgia’s compliance office this week that he paid Gurley $400 to sign 80 items on campus in Athens, Ga., one day this past spring. The person claimed to have a photo and video of Gurley signing the items, but neither the photo nor the video showed money changing hands. NCAA rules require schools to immediately declare a player ineligible if they discover a violation has been committed. Schools may then apply for the player’s reinstatement. Reached by text message on Thursday afternoon, Georgia athletic director Greg McGarity declined comment.
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Can always count on the Mountaineers to keep the expansion talk going…
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Burst his bubble! Tweet that you spotted WVU administration talking with reps from the American (AAC).
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http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/100530/mock-playoff-selection-provides-lessons
17 media members did a mock playoff selection based on 2008. They used the same data and even the same room as the real committee will. Also, committee chair Jeff Long and Bill Hancock were there to help the process along and answer questions.
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/10/mock-college-football-playoff-selection-committee
A longer piece about it by Andy Staples, who was picked as mock chair of the mock committee. It shows all participated, who they were pretending to be, details the process, and explains the final results including all the bowls.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/eye-on-college-football/24745846/mock-exercise-shows-real-playoff-committee-will-have-it-tough
Jerry Palm’s take on it. One thing to note is his insistence on considering scoring margins despite the guidelines saying not to incentivize MOV. They can consider relative scoring, though.
A question that popped into my mind is whether any AP poll voters will look at this method (working with small groups of teams at a time, then giving everything a sanity check later before submitting it) and apply it or something similar to their own ballot. I’d be curious to see what happened if major media outlets each had one vote and used this process with several of their reporters to reach a consensus vote.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/2014/10/09/college-football-playoff-mock-selection/16965913/
George Schroder’s POV.
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Pat Forde’s take:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/inside-look-at-how-the-selection-committee-will-determine-the-college-football-playoff-024035291.html
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Carlton Mock’s take:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20141009-carlton-mock-selection-shows-college-football-playoff-committee-has-tough-task-ahead-of-it.ece
Not much that’s not in the other articles, but there was this at the end:
The controversial top four was determined by three separate votes. SEC conspiracy theorists note: Alabama actually fell from fifth to sixth on the final vote. In a show of hands, only one media member voted for the Crimson Tide in the playoff.
At least the media had a couple of things going for it.
“You guys remember 2008 far better than what the committee did,” Hancock said. “You guys got after each other a lot more than the committee did, too.”
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http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/10/heisman-trophy-integrity-mission-statement
Sign of the times: the Heisman Trust has dropped the word integrity from their mission statement’s first sentence.
It used to be:
The Heisman Memorial Trophy annually recognizes the outstanding college football player whose performance best exhibits the pursuit of excellence with integrity.
Now the highlighted part is gone. Fitting based on recent winners, but a little disappointing. Maybe it’ll help Gurley, though.
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The B10 is one big mess of mediocrity this year.
I feel like any of UNL/Wisconsin/Iowa/Northwestern/Minny/Indiana/UMich/Rutgers/PSU (and maybe even UMD) can beat or lose to each other this year.
Which means that the B10 will likely get trounced come bowl season again.
Will Pelini set the record for most consecutive seasons with exactly 4-losses each year? Actually, has he already?
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Richard,
“The B10 is one big mess of mediocrity this year.”
It is, and that’s mostly bad but partly good. Finally some of the terrible teams have improved. Unfortunately, many of the better teams have regressed to mediocrity.
“I feel like any of UNL/Wisconsin/Iowa/Northwestern/Minny/Indiana/UMich/Rutgers/PSU (and maybe even UMD) can beat or lose to each other this year.”
I’m not sure I’d lump in NE, but you’ve probably seen them play more than I have. PU might even be in that equation now.
“Which means that the B10 will likely get trounced come bowl season again.”
Pretty much, especially up top. The bottom bowls might be OK.
Current B10:
Top – MSU and OSU (maybe NE)
Middle – everyone else (maybe PU)
Bottom – IL and PU
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Where, besides the SEC West, are there any truly “great” teams? They may yet cannibalize each other.
In the PAC-12, each week has a new “it” team that loses.
In the Big 12, any one of TCU/Baylor/Oklahoma/Ok St has a shot (even WVU as dark-horse). If someone had a REAL defense–these teams go down…
In the ACC–there’s no one outside of FSU–and they certainly are NOT what they were. Also, given the BS surrounding (in)famous Jameis— all may be erased anyway…
So Meat-chicken and PSU are down—meaning that some of the other teams are up— is that really so bad?
Parity is alive and well in college football—and, I, as a fan couldn’t be happier… DOWN with the typical “helmet” schools!!!
What if… Miss State wins out… possible
What if… Minnesota wins out… possible (though very unlikely)
What if… FSU loses twice… possible (though unlikely)
What if… Oregon, SC, and UCLA lose again, and Arizona pulls out the Pac-12.
What if… Baylor loses, Ok loses, TCU loses… Maybe Ok St or WVU….
What if the final four are Miss St, Arizona, Minnesota, pick 2nd SEC west team… ??
Not likely—but wouldn’t the “purists” go insane if their “power” school is left outside?
This is one fan that would love to see the chaos!! 8 team playoff would immediately follow…
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mnfanstc,
“So Meat-chicken and PSU are down—meaning that some of the other teams are up— is that really so bad?”
Who are the other teams that are up (as in top 25, not just up for them)? That’s the problem. Nobody’s complaining about MSU being up while MI is down. The problem is nobody else being up as PSU and WI are down.
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As far as the west goes, its a fine thing for Minnesota to be bowl eligible with a weekend still to go in October, and TCU’s position in the Big12 is making the Golden Gopher’s 3+ TD loss to TCU look less bad as the season goes on, but if they were to win out, going on to beat OSU and Nebraska and take the West, on the national picture it seems like it would almost universally be taken as a sign of weakness by the Bucks and Huskers. Similarly if Maryland, were to win out, against all expectations, which would include beating the Spartans … it would “confirm suspicions that Michigan State had chinks in their armor”.
Its hard for me to see how anybody but MSU, the Buckeyes and the Huskers can end up the season as being “up” in the national picture this year. Fair or unfair (and I think there’s a certain degree of it that is indeed fair), it will take a good bowl season to shift perceptions of the strength of schedule represented by playing through the Big Ten conference season, which is, of course, too late to affect the beauty contest to get into the national championship semi-final.
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Interesting perspective.
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/11/jameis-winston-florida-state-disciplinary-hearing
Jameis Winston’s best legal move may be to drop out of Florida State
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Week 7 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 8
FBS football = 6 of 128 remain (4.69%) : 1 more will be gone in Week 8
.
…
.
Big 5 = 4 of 64 remain (6.25%)
ACC —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (6-0, 4-0)
Costal : None after Week 7
Notre Dame @ Florida State
B12 —- 1 of 10 or 10.00% remain
Baylor (6-0, 3-0)
Baylor @ West Virginia
B1G —- 0 of 14 remain
East : NONE after Week 5 | West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 0 of 12 remain
North : NONE after week 6 | South : NONE after week 7
SEC —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (6-0, 3-0) + Mississippi (6-0, 3-0)
Mississippi State OFF |||| Tennessee @ Mississippi
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 2 of 64 remain (3.125%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 13 remain
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain
CUSA : Marshall (6-0, 2-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
IND : Notre Dame (6-0) // 1 of 4 or 25.00%
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3
Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4
SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5
B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6
B1G West and PAC North
Drawing dead after Week 7
ACC Costal and PAC South
.
…
.
Bowl Eligible Week 7
ACC Florida State
B12 Baylor
CUSA Marshall
IND Notre Dame
SEC Mississippi + Mississippi State
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http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/jameis-winston-florida-state-tallahassee-police-hindered-investigation-documents-101014?
Fox Sports puts out yet another report on FSU that paints an ugly picture of the handling of Winston’s rape allegation.
Florida State University officials and Tallahassee police took steps to both hide, and then hinder, the criminal investigation into a rape allegation against the school’s Heisman-trophy winning quarterback Jameis Winston last fall, a FOX Sports investigation has found.
The upshot: University administrators and Winston’s attorney, Tim Jansen, had a head start on the state attorney in Tallahassee responsible for investigating and prosecuting serious crimes. Florida State administrators, for instance, had all the police reports at least four days before State Attorney Willie Meggs was handed the case.
…
Among the findings:
• The university’s police chief obtained original police reports as well as supplemental reports from Tallahassee police on Nov. 8, 2013, at least four days before the case was turned over to Meggs, the local prosecutor responsible for investigating serious crimes and filing criminal charges.
• The university’s police chief forwarded the reports to a high-ranking administrator in the Florida State athletic department, and within days they ultimately wound up in the hands of Winston’s defense attorney — also before Meggs was notified of the case and launched his own investigation.
• Two critical witnesses — Florida State football players who said they were present the morning of the alleged assault — discussed the case with Winston’s lawyer and ultimately signed affidavits at his behest backing the quarterback’s version of the incident. That happened before law enforcement officers tried to talk to them about what they saw and remembered, a dramatic road block in the state attorney’s effort to determine whether Winston should be charged with rape.
• That same high-ranking administrator in the athletic department sought information from the university’s police chief about a reporter seeking the reports on the allegations against Winston.
• The second-highest ranking officer in the campus police department ran interference with another reporter seeking information about the allegations, terming them a “rumor” that he was glad he could “dispel.”
• Both of those police officials were involved in updating Florida State administrators on the case and helping formulate the school’s public relations response in the first days after the explosive story became public.
The Title IX investigation may not turn out well for FSU.
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The NY Times also has another major story on FSU athletes getting away with breaking the law.
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http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/football/polls/coaches-poll/
New Coaches Poll is out.
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. Ole Miss
4. Baylor
5. ND
6. MSU
7. AL
8. AU
9. OR
10. UGA
13. OSU
19. NE
28. MN
32. WI
34. IA
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
The AP poll is very similar.
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. Ole Miss
4. Baylor
5. ND
6. AU
7. AL
8. MSU
9. OR
10. UGA
13. OSU
19. NE
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Wonder if Mississippi St. has ever been #1 before.
Notable-MSU is rated ahead of Oregon and Oklahoma is rated ahead of TCU. Also, Ole Miss is only a couple points behind FSU.
Last year at this time, there were 14 unbeaten and 15 once beaten. This year its 6 and 25.
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Good thing for them they have 2 weeks to prepare for their game at Kentucky. Their coach has a chance to get them from being too happy with themselves. If the game was next week, I would be willing to take Kentucky straight up without points.
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bullet,
“Wonder if Mississippi St. has ever been #1 before.”
Nope. Last week was their highest ranking ever in the AP (was #8 before that, in 1999).
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http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/10/michigan-penn_state_game_showe.html
[PSU/MI game]
So while Big 12 opponents Baylor and TCU combined for 1,267 yards in a top 10 matchup, the game that should have been the featured attraction for the Big Ten, if these programs were what they should be, included 37 percent as much offense.
Too often, the Big Ten is judged on poor offense when actually a fair share of it is good defense. The league probably plays the most consistent defense in the country as a whole. But these were two teams that legitimately couldn’t get out of their own way with the ball in their hands far too often.
I think the SEC plays better D, but I do agree the public often favors high scoring over good D to the detriment of the B10. But great D hasn’t been the issue this year, it’s been terrible O.
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I’m sure every DC jumps players and gets them out of there when they exchange post game pleasantries with the other coach…
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11685983/tcu-coach-gary-patterson-claims-baylor-player-threatened-him
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Mike Slive retiring in June 2015 for health reasons. Get well soon.
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#Beebe4SEC
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Did fake DanBeebe post that?
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Sure did. And he’s got a 10 point agenda.
My favorite is #3.
As soon as I saw Slive was retiring, I headed straight to his twitter and wasn’t disappointed.
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Here’s an article handicapping some candidates to replace Mike Slive. No mention of Dan Beebe.
http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/10/greg_sankey_likely_top_candida.html
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Don’t want Beebe. Do want Fake Dan Beebe. 😜
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11705537/university-michigan-wolverines-regent-denise-ilitch-says-board-discuss-ad-dave-brandon-thursday-meeting
The regents at MI will discuss Dave Brandon at their regular meeting this week. They don’t have the power to fire him, only the president does, but they certainly can influence the decision. Reportedly they’ve already put out feelers to see how interested others would be in the job.
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Interested to hear what names are rumored to be contacted
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http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/10/dave_brandon_athletic_departme.html
The athletic department agreeing to lower student ticket prices for next year, as well as promises to “repair relationships with the students.”
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Found this interesting chart on another board:
By Year
Team
Year
Team
Year
Mississippi State 2014 UCLA 1988
Florida State 2014 Iowa 1985
Alabama 2013 BYU 1984
Notre Dame 2012 Pittsburgh 1982
Oregon 2012 Clemson 1981
USC 2012 Purdue 1968
LSU 2011 Michigan State 1966
Oklahoma 2011 Arkansas 1965
Auburn 2010 Mississippi 1964
Ohio State 2010 Northwestern 1962
Florida 2009 Minnesota 1960
Georgia 2008 Syracuse 1960
Texas 2008 Army 1958
Missouri 2007 Texas A&M 1957
Miami (FL) 2002 Maryland 1955
Nebraska 2000 Wisconsin 1952
Tennessee 1998 California 1951
Michigan 1997 SMU 1950
Penn State 1997 North Carolina 1948
Washington 1992 Boston College 1942
Colorado 1990 Cornell 1940
Virginia 1990 TCU 1938
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Many school’s on the aforementioned list may have been ranked #1 at some point in time, but were not #1 when it mattered.
The last ranking of the season is the one that matters (as far as mythical national championships(mNC’s) go).
For example, Wisconsin has 00000000 mNCs…
Go Gophers!
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Not formatting very well. But you can see going back to Colorado in 1990 that the 19 schools that have dominated the top 5 and top 3 since BYU won the title (as I’ve posted on here before) have all been #1 since 1990. Mississippi St. in 2014 and [redacted] in 2007 are the only other schools to have made the top spot in the last 24 years.
And there have only been 25 total going all the way back to the bizzare 1968 season (IU/PU/MN shared the Big 10 title).
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Yes, there are clear clusters:
14 in the last 7.5 seasons (2007-now):
kings – AL, UF, LSU, FSU, OU, UT, USC, OR, ND, OSU
princes – AU, UGA
other – MO, MS St
5 in the late 90s to early 00s (1997-2002):
kings down on their luck lately – MI, PSU, NE, TN, Miami
3 in the early 90s (1990-2):
UW, CO, UVA
5 in the 80s:
UCLA, IA, Pitt, BYU, Clemson
17 before 1970:
MSU, WI, PU, MN, NW, UMD, SU, BC, Cornell, Army, UNC, AR, MS, TCU, SMU, TAMU, Cal
Most likely to move up in the next decade:
MI, PSU, NE, TN, Miami, UW, UCLA, Clemson, MSU, WI, TAMU
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HBO has announced they’ll sell an internet-only service starting next year. CBS announced something similar.
Cable unbundling? Discuss.
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Strange that HBO is leading the charge since they are owned by Time Warner (owners of TBS, TNT, etc; not Time Warner Cable) a major beneficiary of the cable bundle. CBS I understand since they don’t have much (Showtime, CBSSN) for cable channel businesses.
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via Gizmodo.
http://gizmodo.com/the-future-of-tv-is-great-if-you-hate-sports-1647114094/+kylenw
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greg,
“HBO has announced they’ll sell an internet-only service starting next year. CBS announced something similar.
Cable unbundling? Discuss.”
I’m a little surprised their contracts with the cable companies allow it.
HBO will cost $9 per month or so as a guess. How many channels can get away with that sort of price besides ESPN? Can other channels charge enough to cover the costs of streaming and still make a profit? Will the channel owners still insist on bundles of their channels? How much of a hassle will it be to pay subscription fees to 17 different channels? How long until companies come along that bundle that into one fee and then they pay the individual channels? At what point does that transition back into tiered service for convenience?
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ESPN would have to charge $20-$30 per month I would guess.
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So why would a league go through ESPN, or any other current sport provider. Cut out the middle man and take it right to the public. ESPN would have to make their money on the sports/Leagues that cannot draw enough interest individually.
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HBO will cost $9 per month or so as a guess
Most of the discussion I’ve seen on Twitter by the TV press are talking like $20/Mo is the minimum they’ll charge. Others are expecting a higher fee than that.
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I went with $9 because I saw speculation that they wouldn’t want to cost much more than Netflix and such.
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Yes, but there’s informed speculation, and there’s speculation which is a shot in the dark. I’d expect somebody to speculate that they’ll charge about what Netflix does, but it seems likely that the same balance of forces that kept them from offering HOB 2 Go free standing up to this point will push them into a higher price point than Netflix or HuluPlus.
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It’s already 15 on TV and they do a lot more originals than nflx. An OTT/Online only would be 20 minimum IMO.
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I can’t wait until children are going door to door selling Internet TV subscriptions like children used to do for magazine subscriptions. “Buy one year of ESPN at 25% off the retail price and get a free football phone”
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11711790/lsu-tigers-miami-hurricanes-kick-2018-season-arlington-texas
LSU announces another “neutral” game, this time versus Miami in Dallas in 2018. They also announced a home and home with Texas for 2019 and 2020.
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Wait, LSU can get a home-and-home with Texas, but A&M can’t?
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Just a few weeks ago their AD said they weren’t going to play us right now; of course, officials in A&M’s athletic department have said similar things in the past. It’s all very silly.
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Playing LSU might help in recruiting LA, plus it’s a change of pace. Add in the bad feelings between UT and TAMU, and I’m not surprised.
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Its all about value added. Texas playing A&M is more valuable for A&M. It doesn’t add much to Texas when UT already has 3 Texas schools on the schedule and can schedule UCLA, USC, Notre Dame, Ohio St., Michigan and LSU as alternatives (all on current or future schedules). Those get more national attention instead of primarily local.
If Texas was the only Texas school in the Big 12, the value of playing A&M would be higher. But UT doesn’t really need more exposure in Texas. Rice has pretty much disappeared from the schedule with the H&H vs. the USCs, NDs, etc. They aren’t giving up a home game every 3rd year to play in Houston.
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http://www.omaha.com/huskers/notes-expansion-means-more-single-plays-for-men-s-basketball/article_025ff4ff-dbe9-535e-9a46-873856fee8a8.html?TNNoMobile
Starting in 2016, the Big Ten will play nine conference football games instead of eight. Keeping the number of conference basketball games at 18 after expansion represents a decline in conference games as a percentage.
“I love conference games,” Delany said. “But they don’t make January or February any longer, other than leap year, so you’re trying to get a certain number of games into that period.
“There’s just not the place for 20 conference games, unless you play some in December.”
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So play some in December. The world won’t end if you play some conference games when students aren’t around.
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Yes, but you won’t sell many tickets.
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They don’t sell many for some of the crap OOC games in December anyway. A B10 game should draw better.
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I think the only conference with a 20-game men’s basketball conference schedule is the Northeast — and that’s primarily because their gymnasiums tend to be the smallest in Division I and it’s difficult for many of them to secure non-conference home games.
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http://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/womens-basketball/article_42110368-4828-5d9a-93ba-9a6649eafbd2.html
The writer brings up the possibility that the attendance for Big Ten women’s basketball this season could reach 1 million for the first time.
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Maryland’s presence will help, though I should note the Big Ten draws better for women’s hoops than the more accomplished ACC, perhaps because nearly all of its members are large state flagships.
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http://www.laxmagazine.com/college_men/DI/2014-15/news/101614_30_in_30_big_time
A real good background story on the emergence of the lacrosse league in the Big Ten and how realignment has affected lacrosse across the nation.
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Home field disadvantage? With Utah’s road win tonight, in PAC12 conference games the home team is 4-15. Weird.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24752285/sec-commissioner-mike-slives-vision-was-about-being-right-not-first
Article talks about Slive. Seems to be kind of subtle dig. He didn’t clean things up, just got them to quit reporting each other.
Slive, a lawyer by trade and a Jewish Yankee, had to convince southern folks in the SEC to stop bickering among themselves over violations and stop turning themselves in to the NCAA. (It’s one of the reasons Slive couldn’t stand Lane Kiffin during his time at Tennessee while yapping about a possible violation by Urban Meyer.) Coaches no longer dodge subpoenas at SEC Media Days.
Sure, there remain SEC violations and controversies, most notably the NCAA’s high-profile investigation into Cam Newton’s recruitment. But either nothing stuck or it resulted in penalties to SEC schools that could be overcome on the field.
Alabama and LSU managed to play in the only BCS Championship Game in which both teams were on NCAA probation. Mississippi State is currently No. 1 in the polls while on probation because the NCAA found a booster helped a player secure a car and provided cash to a recruit multiple times — all with the knowledge of an assistant coach, who later resigned.
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@ frank
Will you put up a new thread for the first playoff vote at the end of the month?
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Next year a rider cup member?
http://espn.go.com/golf/story/_/id/11720413/81-year-old-golfer-dom-debonis-notches-3-aces-3-days
I want some of what ever he’s been drinking.
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Can’t believe I’m rooting for ND.
Thanks Mr. Winston…and those who enable him.
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Rooting for whoever is worst team left on FSU’s to beat them and take them down a peg or two
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That one was really tough for me. Do I root against Notre Dame or against Winston?
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Yes. Go Team Meteor.
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Week 8 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 9
FBS football = 4 of 128 remain (3.125%)
.
…
.
Big 5 = 3 of 64 remain (4.69%)
ACC —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (7-0, 4-0)
Costal : None after Week 7
Florida State is OFF
B12 —- 0 of 10 remain | None after week 8
B1G —- 0 of 14 remain
East : NONE after Week 5 | West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 0 of 12 remain
North : NONE after week 6 | South : NONE after week 7
SEC —- 2 of 14 or 14.29% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (6-0, 3-0) + Mississippi (7-0, 4-0)
Mississippi State @ Kentucky |||| Mississippi @ LSU
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 1 of 64 remain (1.56%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 13 remain
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain
IND : NONE after Week 8 // 0 of 4 remain
CUSA : Marshall (7-0, 3-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
Florida Atlantic @ Marshall
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3 : Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4 : SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5 : B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6 : B1G West and PAC North
Drawing dead after Week 7 : ACC Costal and PAC South
Drawing dead after Week 8 : IND
.
…
.
Bowl Eligible Week 7
ACC Florida State
B12 Baylor
CUSA Marshall
IND Notre Dame
SEC Mississippi + Mississippi State
Bowl Eligible Week 8
ACC Louisville + Duke
B1G Michigan State + Minnesota + Nebraska
MWC Colorado State
PAC Oregon
SEC Georgia + Alabama + LSU
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http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/football/polls/coaches-poll/
New Coaches Poll:
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. Ole Miss
4. AL
5. MSU
6. AU
7. OR
8. ND
9. UGA
10. TCU
12. OSU
16. NE
24. MN
31. WI
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
New AP Poll:
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. Ole Miss
4. AL
5. AU
6. OR
7. ND
8. MSU
9. UGA
10. TCU
13. OSU
16. NE
28. MN
33. UMD
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MSU staying at 8 is a crock.
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Who should MSU have jumped, or who should have fallen behind them (whichever way you prefer to view it)? ND’s loss was better than MSU’s, wasn’t it?
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I don’t think MSU looks exceptional this year but neither has Alabama. I do think Ohio State is in the drivers seat if they can continue to roll over their opponents and obviously beat MSU in E. Lansing. OSU could face a ranked Minnesota on the road and If Nebraska wins out and faces OSU in the CCG their should be enough quality wins to make them appealing for the Playoff.
This assumes that ND losses another game, the B12 doesn’t get an invite and there is only 1 team selected from the SEC.
In a hypothetical scenario I can’t see the B1G champion left out if the B12 has 2 loses and ND has 2 loses. This assumes the PAC 12 Champ and FSU make it in and it comes down to a 1 loss B1G champ and maybe 1 or 2 SEC non-champion teams. I think the conference championship will be the tie breaker.
Now if TCU wins the B12 anything can happen. Will be interesting to see how the committee handles the teams that don’t play a CCG like the B12 and ND.
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There are few enough teams with 0 or 1 loss, I don’t think any conference champ with 1 loss gets left out.
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Kevin,
“I don’t think MSU looks exceptional this year but neither has Alabama.”
Agreed. I was just pointing out that if MSU was #8 going into the week, what happened that would make one think they should move up?
ND’s loss was better than MSU’s. The FSU and MS schools are undefeated with a decent SOS. AL crushed TAMU and their only loss was at MS. AU had a bye and their only loss was at MS St. OR whipped UW and handled MSU weeks ago.
I’m not saying MSU couldn’t play with those teams, but what happened that made kylepeter think it was a crock for MSU to stay at #8?
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I think MSU is in a pretty good spot all things considered. If they keep winning, a number of the teams in front of them will slide down due to their upcoming schedules. Keep an eye out for Georgia. I think they have a chance to make things interesting and could be spoilers for the SEC West champ in a CCG.
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I think it would be hard to put a 12-1 Michigan State in the playoff ahead of a 10-2 Oregon which didn’t win its division. A 12-1 Michigan State would also likely fall behind a Pac 12 champ that had 2 losses…maybe even a 3 loss Pac 12 champ.
One thing that helps the Big 10 out, oddly enough, is Rutger’s victory over Washington State. WSU has only won 1 game in the Pac 12, but: 1) They have been close in several other games and 2) That one victory was against otherwise undefeated Utah. Big Ten fans should be rooting for WSU to win a few more conference games.
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m(Ag),
“I think it would be hard to put a 12-1 Michigan State in the playoff ahead of a 10-2 Oregon which didn’t win its division.”
I don’t. I’m not saying I would, but there’s a lot of season left. Who is their second loss and what were the circumstances (home/road, close or not, injuries, etc)? How did OR look in their other wins? How good did MSU look in beating OSU and the West champ?
A conference championship is supposed to be a tiebreaker, and a Week 2 road loss to a top 10 team shouldn’t be the end of the world.
“A 12-1 Michigan State would also likely fall behind a Pac 12 champ that had 2 losses…maybe even a 3 loss Pac 12 champ.”
Behind 11-2 OR as a champ, sure. Any other 11-2 champ would be from the South. USC would have a win over ND as well as their P12 schedule so they might well pass them. It depends who ASU, AZ or Utah lose to and who they beat to see how they’d do. I’m not sure they’d pass MSU, although ASU has the best chance since they also play ND.
I really don’t see a 10-3 P12 champ passing a 12-1 MSU unless MSU looks just horrible the rest of the year.
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Lol at Kelly from ND. What a cheating, low-life sack of shit. Calls a play to win a game that involves not one, but two, WRs blocking downfield to clear space, daring the refs to call it. They do, and now he’s bitching that they caught his sorry ass.
Heck of a coach, but a total POS person.
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He is correct that FSU blew the coverage. Neither blocked defender was fighting to follow the receiver, and one reacted angrily at a teammate imediately after the catch. The blocks were unnecessary. The blocks would have been legal too, had the reception been made at or behind the line of scrimmage.
Amusing that refs for ND’s choice of conference safe haven were willing to make critical end of game calls that seem to not have happened in other past games (thinking of Stanford a couple years ago).
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Anyone want to waste your time guessing how that play would have been called in South Bend?
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Probably the exact same. I suppose the ACC would send that same crew to NDS.
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Archie Manning takes leave of absence for 2014 season
http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/press-releases/archie-manning-to-take-leave-from-playoff-selection-committee
Look like he will return in 2015
Article says they will not replace him and voters will now be 12 instead of 13.
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It is looking like a at least two 1 loss teams will make the initial playoff. Florida State can still run the table but the 2 Mississippi schools must play each other before the season ends. Looking forward would all 2 loss teams be out at this point as enough 1 loss teams will remain to fill the top 4 slots? What say you FtT readers?
0 loss teams (excluding Marshall)
ACC | Florida State
B 12 | none
B1G | none
I ND | none
PAC | none
SEC | Mississippi + Mississippi State
1 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Duke
B 12 | Kansas State + Baylor + TCU
B1G | Michigan State + Ohio State + Minnesota + Nebraska
I ND | Notre Dame
PAC | Oregon + Arizona State + Arizona + Utah
SEC | Georgia + Alabama + Auburn
2 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Clemson + Louisville + Georgia Tech
B 12 | West Virginia + Oklahoma State + Oklahoma
B1G | Maryland + Rutgers + Penn State + Iowa + Wisconsin
I ND | none
PAC | Washington + Oregon State + Southern Cal + UCLA
SEC | Missouri + Kentucky + LSU
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I think there’s a decent chance a 2 loss team gets in. All the SEC, Big 12, Pac 12 and Big 10 teams still have a lot of games against the other top teams in the conference. And FSU could lose a championship game to a 2 or 3 loss team, which might knock them out of consideration.
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I think 2 loss teams from the ACC and B10 are out. Two losses in the B12 is probably out. A P12 champ with 2 losses might be in. A 2 loss SEC team is still in the running. There are a lot of games left.
http://espn.go.com/ncf/notebook/_/page/EliminatorWeek8/eliminator-college-football-week-8-victims-survivors
ESPN has been tracking this with their Eliminator. Their lists seem reasonable for the most part.
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Clemson may be the 2 loss exception in the ACC
loss 1 @ #9 Georgia – who can still move up in the polls
loss 2 @ #2 Florida State – who should finish in the Top 10 to Top 15 even with 2 losses
Suppose they run the table – beating Georgia Tech on the road and South Carolina at home – and Florida State drops their game at Louisville and another ACC game. Clemson could go to the ACC CCG with 10-2 record and beating Coastal team there might give them a boost over most 2 loss teams and some 1 loss teams as they would be 11-2 and highly ranked.
In the Big 12 I can see a 2 loss Oklahoma making a late push or possibly West Virginia or Kansas State. B1G and PAC still seem wide open and the CCG could certainly help the winner of either one by adding the 13th game.
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duffman,
“Clemson may be the 2 loss exception in the ACC
loss 1 @ #9 Georgia – who can still move up in the polls
loss 2 @ #2 Florida State – who should finish in the Top 10 to Top 15 even with 2 losses”
They could be, but I doubt it. Those were the only ranked teams they’ll play all year, and they aren’t blowing out everyone else. Both UL and BC kept it to a 1 score game.
“Suppose they run the table – beating Georgia Tech on the road and South Carolina at home – and Florida State drops their game at Louisville and another ACC game.”
The GT win wouldn’t mean much and neither would the SC win. Both are mediocre this year. The FSU losses (UL is 6-2, the others on their schedule are all 4-3) would make Clemson losing to them look worse.
“Clemson could go to the ACC CCG with 10-2 record and beating Coastal team there might give them a boost over most 2 loss teams and some 1 loss teams as they would be 11-2 and highly ranked.”
Beating Duke wouldn’t be much of a boost I don’t think.
“In the Big 12 I can see a 2 loss Oklahoma making a late push or possibly West Virginia or Kansas State. B1G and PAC still seem wide open and the CCG could certainly help the winner of either one by adding the 13th game.”
Circumstances can change as the year finishes, but I don’t see how an 11-2 B10 team has a chance this year.
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Without comment…
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5985520
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College Football Vegas Rankings.
“The CFB Vegas Rankings are the composite power ratings of a panel of professional handicappers and college football statisticians, including fellow Insider Phil Steele, Brian Edwards and Bruce Marshall of The Gold Sheet. The ratings are intended to weigh the relative strength of the teams if they met on a neutral field and to be compared to the point spread on a given game.”
The link would send you behind ESPN’s pay wall, so here it is by conference.
Pac-12 (7) – #5 Oregon, #T-15 USC, #T-18 Arizona, #T-18 Arizona State, #T-20 Utah, #T-20 UCLA, #24 Stanford
SEC (6) – #1 Miss State, #2 Ole Miss, #3 Bama, #6 Auburn, #T-7 Georgia, #T-15 LSU
Big XII (5) – #T-7 TCU, #T-11 Baylor, #T-11 K-State, #14 Oklahoma, #T-22 West Virginia
B1G (3) – #T-9 Mich State, #T-9 Ohio State, #T-15 Nebraska
ACC (2) – #4 Florida State, #T-22 Clemson
IND – #T-11 Notre Dame
CUSA – #25 Marshall
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Domination by the SEC West at the top. The Pac South is deep. Notable is that only the SEC East and ACC Coastal have no top 25 representatives.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/76130/acc-notre-dame-announce-opponents-through-2025
ND’s ACC schedule through 2025 is set. They’ll average 5 games per year, but the number varies.
Notre Dame gets six ACC games in 2019 and 2023, while playing just four in 2022 and 2024. The Irish, of course, have just four ACC games this year, but will play six next season.
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If they are doing that, there was no reason they couldn’t have gone to 6 and UL wouldn’t have been needed as #14. Just play their division foes in a RR and that’s 6 games.
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At least their not using ACC membership to keep the weaker northeastern teams/traditional rivals on the schedule. Bullet, wouldnt ND have to bounce between divisions (2 years in the Coastal/2years in the Atlantic/ rinse repeat, perhaps rotating with SYR or BC) to maximize their exposure to all 13 other schools in your scenario.
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That’s one way to do it. Miami and Notre Dame could flip every two years. You wouldn’t need to do pods with everyone.
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Not 5 every year, but it averages out to 5 (a few 4 or 6).
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Tried to cancel that reply, but hit button too late. Just repeated what Brian said, sorry.
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Mr SEC:
Several years ago on this site we tried to explain why the SEC, in our view, has overachieved in terms of the money it brings in via television deals. Yes, the conference plays good football, but one conference — the Big Ten — should always make more money. Better TV ratings, of course, mean new contracts and bigger dollar figures. If the Big Ten won more, it’s ceiling would be higher than the SEC’s.
http://fanvsfan.com/articles/espn-s-chris-fowler-nothing-better-for-ratings-than-dominant-big-ten
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Well, the 2006 UMich-OSU game _is_ the top-rated regular season college football game in ABC history. Lots of ND@USC and Miami-FSU as well.
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Top rated Prime time ABC games (prime time started in 2006):
Notre Dame/USC 2006 10.0
Notre Dame/USC 2012 9.6
Texas/Ohio St. 2006 8.2
Notre Dame/FSU 2014 7.9
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2014/10/notre-dame-fsu-tv-rating-most-watched-college-football-2014-season-abc/
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http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2012/11/28/notre-dame-usc-abcs-most-viewed-regular-season-college-football-game-since-2006/159437/
ABC televised the two most-viewed and highest-rated college football games of the weekend on Saturday, Nov. 24, led by the Saturday Night Football Presented by Windows 8 broadcast of No. 1 Notre Dame defeating USC 22-13.
The matchup averaged 16,059,000 viewers; 10,707,000 households; and a 9.4 rating, making it the most-viewed regular-season college football game on ABC since November 18, 2006, when No. 2 Michigan at No. 1 Ohio State averaged 21,037,000 viewers; 14,479,000 households; and a 13.0 rating. Additional highlights of the telecast:
* The broadcast is also the fifth most-viewed regular-season college football game among all networks since at least 1991 (ratings prior to 1991 are not available) and the most-viewed game not involving a matchup between the nation’s top two teams.
* NBC’s No. 1 Florida State at No. 2 Notre Dame averaged 22,019,000 viewers, 15,072,000 households and a 16.0 rating on November 13, 1993.
* ABC’s No. 2 Michigan at No. 1 Ohio State averaged 21,037,000 viewers; 14,479,000 households; and a 13.0 rating on November 18, 2006.
* CBS’s No. 1 LSU at No. 2 Alabama averaged 20,011,000 viewers; 13,134,000 households; and an 11.5 rating on November 5, 2011.
* CBS’s No. 1 Florida vs. No. 2 Alabama in the SEC Championship game averaged 17,969,000 viewers; 12,755,000 households; and an 11.1 rating on December 5, 2009.
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Report on the UNC scandal is out. 18 years of fake classes.
http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/10/22/4255098/unc-investigation-bogus-classes.html
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A sobering independent investigation into academic fraud at UNC-Chapel Hill released Wednesday prompted Chancellor Carol Folt to commit to holding accountable all current university staff implicated in the report, including initiating termination against four and disciplinary review for another five.
A system of no-show classes was pushed by academic counselors for athletes, hatched and enabled by two sympathetic officials in a key department and employed by coaches eager to keep players eligible, the report on the new investigation into the long-running scandal said.
The 18-year scheme generated inflated grades through lecture-style classes that had been quietly converted into bogus independent studies. The report, released Wednesday afternoon, found a new culprit: the Academic Support Program for Student-Athletes.
The finding about the ASPSA is important. That may let the NCAA actually punish UNC.
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I’ll believe it when I see it. For the NCAA, UNC men’s basketball is too big to fail.
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Click to access UNC-FINAL-REPORT.pdf
The whole report.
Over the 18 years these classes existed, Crowder and Nyang’oro were responsible for offering 188 different lecture classes as well as hundreds of individual independent studies in the “paper class” format – with no class attendance or faculty involvement, and with Crowder managing the class and liberally grading the papers. Through this scheme, over 3,100 students received one or more semesters of deficient instruction and were awarded high grades that often had little relationship to the quality of their work.
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20141021-texas-athletic-director-with-new-rules-longhorns-will-pay-each-player-10000.ece
Frank tweeted this link. UT says it will cost about $10,000 per athlete to give FCOA scholarships plus the $5000 for using their likeness, so $6M total per year.
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I didn’t think an individual school could start paying for likeness. Plus I thought it would lead to eventual consistent payments by conference or D1 Power 5 and the money would be placed in an NCAA trust to be paid out after graduation.
Doesn’t seem smart for Texas to put a dollar amount on the likeness while NCAA is currently in litigation on these matters. Something doesn’t seem right here.
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Yes, it would be put in trust but they have to budget for it anyway. That’s probably the same reason they can announce the number. They have to plan for it based on the judge’s decision, not knowing what may change between now and actual implementation.
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They now are stating that Texas AD was discussing the payment from a hypothetical view if they lose in court. That article was not real clear and somewhat misleading.
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The headline IS kind of misleading.
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4M/15K=400
Is that the total of UT scholarship athletes?
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Sorry…6M/15K
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Sorry, the $10k was an inclusive number (FCOA + likeness money).
6M/10k = 600
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/headlines/20141021-texas-athletic-director-with-new-rules-longhorns-will-pay-each-player-10000.ece
One man’s suggested playoff pecking order:
1. Undefeated SEC champion
2. Undefeated Florida State
3. One-loss SEC champion
4. One-loss SEC team, not champion (there can be more than one)
5. One-loss Florida State, ACC champion
6. One-loss Pac-12 champion
7. Two-loss SEC champion
8. One-loss Big Ten champion
9. 11-1 Notre Dame
10. One-loss ACC champion, not Florida State
11. One-loss Big 12 champion
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I don’t see a 1 loss SEC non-champ getting in before a 1 loss B1G or Pac 12 champion. Otherwise the order seems fair but ignores who they loose to, where and when (early in season or late).
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I don’t see an 1 loss B1G champ getting in ahead of a 11-1 Notre Dame this year or a one loss BXII. Public perception is that the Big Ten is waaaay down. Their best lost is MSU getting pasted by a Duck team that’s not a lock to make it with one loss, and their best OOC win is? I don’t know how the committee makes an argument for the B1G this year.
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Pasted isn’t the word I would use if you actually watched the game. Will be interesting to see how the committee will view ND. Since conference championships are 1 of the selected criteria it’s possible that ND will be left out.
This all assumes that ND runs the table the rest of the way. .
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The one loss Big 12 teams are Baylor, TCU, and KSU, not Texas or Oklahoma. Right or wrong, I would be surprised if they got in over one loss Nebraska, Michigan St, or Ohio St.
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The Dallas Cowboys success may cause logistical issues with the first Title Game:
http://fansided.com/2014/10/22/dallas-cowboys-success-conflict-ncaa-championship-game/
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I would think nothing would compare to the Texas A&M v. Houston Cougars game played a few hours after the conclusion of an extra-inning NLCS game (Phillies @ Astros) in October of 1980. That one involved not just the same field but also the movement of stands from baseball to football configuration. The easy enough solution is just to lock Dallas into the Saturday afternoon slot – could it be that FOX really wants Dallas in the Sunday 4:30 ET slot instead? Classic cake and eat it too scenario.
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I would think Dallas gets the Romo-special slot of Saturday night in primetime.
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…its just as cursed as the Bengals on Saturday afternoon wild-card (Jets, Texans in recent years). Though the Bengals also stunk up the Sunday Noon slot last year as well.
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And so many people on here have proposed UNC to the BIG. I don’t mean to open up any other school’s issues (Penn State, OSU, FSU, etc.) just want to focus on UNC as some posts have already done. There must be more discussion on UNC’s issues because the NCAA, more than ever before, is on the cusp of long-term credibility or inevitable, massive reform, as it has really struggled to stay the course the past 5 years especially.
Jay Bilas tweeted the below Mandel article, a worthy but passive piece. Minnesota got wiped out after their academic scandal & what happened there really doesn’t come close to UNC.
So two BIG members lost NCG’s at the expense of mighty Carolina: Illinois and Michigan State. I don’t know about 1993 since Michigan has vacated that NCG appearance.
If Carolina doesn’t vacate at least 2 NCs and God knows how many wins both regular season and post-season, I may just give up on college basketball & football for a long, long time.
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/north-carolina-academic-scandal-wainstein-report-investigation-ncaa-102214
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I never wanted a plantation school like UNC in the B10. NCAA needs drop the hammer on UNC. While PSU’s issues were criminal in nature, this is right up NCAA’s wheelhouse. 18 years is egregious. Death penalty is warranted.
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The funny thing is I think this scandal would make it more likely UNC joins the BIG versus the SEC if and when the time comes. UNC will be on damage control for a long time distancing themselves from any thing not of the highest academic standards, or at least reputation for high academic standards.
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http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/college-sports/columnists/bill-nichols/20141022-nichols-exploring-the-prime-candidates-for-smu-s-coaching-vacancy-from-proven-coaches-to-young-guns.ece
SMU is looking to hire Mack Brown at $4M per year for 8 years.
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Brian – I was in Dallas and Fort Worth last week and that was the hot rumor on both sides of the Metroplex. Supposedly, lots of Texas alums living in Dallas are willing to help underwrite this deal as they have such affection for Mack Brown.
If the Mack Brown deal doesn’t work, SMU would be smart to pick off Mark Hudspeth at Louisiana-Lafayette. He’s a good coach that has the Cajuns operating at max capacity for their program.
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Mack brings big name value for recruiting, but I’m not sure how fired up he’d be in his late 60s coaching in a G5 conference. A fiery up and comer might be the smarter approach, but we all know SMU likes to throw money at their football problems.
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I don’t know how interested he is in going back.
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He is 10th on the all time win list with 244 and only 14 wins from getting into 7th all time, passing Holtz, Osborne and Edwards. Don’t think he would be interested in coaching long enough to catch any of the top 6 (unless Beamer retires soon-he’s at 270).
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Would Hudspeth, in the absence of UF and subsequently a Mississipi school having a coaching change, be interested in a job up north?
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Its amazing what a very hot seat under the AD will accomplish:
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11751719/michigan-wolverines-lower-prices-student-tickets-football-games-2015
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http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11752984/syracuse-university-men-basketball-football-programs-ncaa-investigation
Syracuse is under NCAA investigation for MBB (and football to a lesser extent) for things going back at least 10 years.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11752590/texas-replaces-oregon-clemson-2018-19-home-home-series
TAMU dropped an upcoming HaH with OR to play Clemson instead. It makes sense from TAMU’s POV, but I hate to see a P12/SEC series get cancelled.
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From what it sounds like, they both wanted the home game in the same year to keep enough home games. That’s a legitimate reason to cancel in that kind of situation if it is indeed true.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jon-solomon/24765822/uncs-unprecedented-academic-fraud-case-will-test-ncaa
A long article about the UNC case and what may happen.
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In 2010, FSU had a “major” cheating scandal involving one on-line music course. There were 61 athletes and at least 100 non-athlete students involved. That is is nothing compared to the allegations at UNC, which lasted for so many years. FSU vacated 12 football wins (which at that time brought Bowden below Paterno in career wins). They also vacated wins in mens’ and womens’ basketball, in track and every sport in which any of the cheating athletes were involved. Of course, that was to bad bay FSU, not the leader of the ACC.
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If they go back to 1993, Mack Brown drops to #23 at 199 wins. Maybe then he takes SMU.
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Heading into the first playoff vote.
0 loss teams (excluding Marshall)
ACC | Florida State
B 12 | none
B1G | none
I ND | none
PAC | none
SEC | Mississippi State
1 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Duke
B 12 | Kansas State + Baylor + TCU
B1G | Michigan State + Ohio State + Nebraska
I ND | Notre Dame
PAC | Oregon + Arizona State + Arizona + Utah
SEC | Mississippi + Georgia + Alabama + Auburn
2 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Clemson + Louisville + Georgia Tech
B 12 | West Virginia + Oklahoma
B1G | Minnesota + Iowa + Wisconsin
I ND | none
PAC | UCLA
SEC | Missouri + LSU
.
…
…..
…
.
Week 9 culls the Big 5 undefeated again : BOLD = battle of unbeaten’s for Week 10
FBS football = 3 of 128 remain (2.4%)
Big 5 = 2 of 64 remain (3.125%)
ACC —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (7-0, 4-0)
Costal : None after Week 7
Florida State @ Louisville (6-2, 4-2 ACC) Thursday game
B12 —- 0 of 10 remain | None after week 8
B1G —- 0 of 14 remain
East : NONE after Week 5 | West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 0 of 12 remain
North : NONE after week 6 | South : NONE after week 7
SEC —- 2 of 14 or 7.14% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (7-0, 4-0)
Arkansas (4-4, 0-4 SEC) @ Mississippi State
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 1 of 64 remain (1.5625%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 13 remain
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain
IND : NONE after Week 8 // 0 of 4 remain
CUSA : Marshall (8-0, 4-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
Marshall is OFF
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3 : Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4 : SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5 : B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6 : B1G West and PAC North
Drawing dead after Week 7 : ACC Costal and PAC South
Drawing dead after Week 8 : IND
Drawing dead after Week 9 : none
.
…
.
Bowl Eligible Week 7
ACC Florida State
B12 Baylor
CUSA Marshall
IND Notre Dame
SEC Mississippi + Mississippi State
Bowl Eligible Week 8
ACC Louisville + Duke
B1G Michigan State + Minnesota + Nebraska
MWC Colorado State
PAC Oregon
SEC Georgia + Alabama + LSU
Bowl Eligible Week 9
ACC East Carolina
ACC Clemson + Georgia Tech
B12 Kansas State + West Virginia + TCU
B1G Ohio State
MAC Northern Illinois
MWC Boise State
PAC Arizona State + Arizona + Utah + UCLA
SEC Missouri + Auburn
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Minnesota was the only 1 loss team to lose this week. There are still 18 (counting ECU and Colorado St.). This time last year there were 8 unbeaten and 13 1 loss teams. Still 21 this year, but its 3 unbeaten and 18 1 loss.
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For the G5 bowl slot:
0 losses Marshal
1 loss ECU, Colorado St.
2 losses Boise, Air Force, UCF, Northern Illinois, South Alabama, Georgia Southern
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I wish they would wait one more week to release their standings. Traditionally, a lot of big games happen Halloween weekend. It will be hard for the committee to overcome their own “preseason bias,” even if their “preseason” starts in late October.
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http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/football/polls/coaches-poll/
Coaches Poll:
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. AL
4. AU
5. MSU
6. OR
7. ND
8. UGA
9. Ole Miss
10. TCU
13. OSU
16. NE
26. WI
29. MN
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
AP Poll:
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. AL
4. AU
5. OR
6. ND
7. Ole Miss
8. MSU
9. UGA
10. TCU
13. OSU
17. NE
28. WI
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The officiating during the Penn State vs Ohio State game left a lot to be desired. The conspiracy theorists at certain message boards are working overtime.
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Even paranoids have enemies….and it sure seems PSU’s enemies are the Big 10 football officials, administrators, fans, and sportswriters. From the beginning of PSU’s time in the Big Ten they have gotten some of the most atrocious and untimely calls I’ve ever seen…..against UM, OSU, and (oddly enough) Iowa. And a 1993 call v. IU in a basketball game which was the worst I ever saw. Complete screwjobs, of the sort that the Indiianas and Purdues of the world might expect.
As an IU fan, I could never understand the hostility toward PSU when it was admitted. It was an incredibly profitable move for the Big 10….MUCH more so than for PSU, which could just have easily gone to the ACC. Yes, some of the PSU fans were somewhat arrogant, but, IMO, not unreasonably so given the success the program experienced.
That early hostility caused resentment among the PSU fans that in turn raised the hostility meter against PSU and its fans. Then came the ’94 vote that went against PSU, and the series of ref mistakes. Mistakes so bad that they went beyond accidental, imo. The Big Ten-PSU relationship has always been a sick one….on top of that came the Sandusky scandal and the Fascist reaction to the same by the NCAA. To me, it just seems poisonous situation. If I was A PSU fan, I’d want out, and that’s too bad, as the Big Ten has always been great for the Hoosiers.
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mushroomgod,
“Even paranoids have enemies….and it sure seems PSU’s enemies are the Big 10 football officials, administrators, fans, and sportswriters. From the beginning of PSU’s time in the Big Ten they have gotten some of the most atrocious and untimely calls I’ve ever seen…..against UM, OSU, and (oddly enough) Iowa. And a 1993 call v. IU in a basketball game which was the worst I ever saw. Complete screwjobs, of the sort that the Indiianas and Purdues of the world might expect.”
That’s largely bunk, IMO. The refs screw over everybody. PSU hasn’t ever benefited from some blown calls? Only MSU and PSU turn refereeing into a conspiracy. As for the administrators, who exactly is PSU’s enemy? Delany has fought behind the scenes to get PSU’s sanctions reduced and been successful. PSU got two eastern neighbors added plus a geographic division split so they also get to play OSU and MI.
Some fans hate PSU, just like some hate MI and some hate OSU. But fans have no power, so who cares? As for sportswriters, nobody got better treatment by the press than JoePa did for decades.
“As an IU fan, I could never understand the hostility toward PSU when it was admitted.”
Really? I thought the roots of any resistance were fairly obvious. First, things were done in secret and nobody likes that. Second, PSU isn’t midwestern and many people didn’t see a need to expand a midwestern conference into the east. The B10 made it worse by giving zero explanation. Third, PSU was an independent that demanded special treatment (playing MI for the first 10 years despite MI not being one of their locked rivals). Fourth, many of their fans were extremely arrogant and dismissive of the B10 and the midwest.
“It was an incredibly profitable move for the Big 10….MUCH more so than for PSU, which could just have easily gone to the ACC.”
Fans really didn’t care about money back then, and PSU didn’t join primarily for financial reasons but academic and athletic ones.
“Yes, some of the PSU fans were somewhat arrogant, but, IMO, not unreasonably so given the success the program experienced.”
Maybe that was your experience in Indiana. It was much worse in Ohio. It was a constant stream of being told how lucky we were that PSU had stooped to joining us unwashed heathens and how they would dominate us for the foreseeable future in football, winning at least half the conference titles.
“That early hostility caused resentment among the PSU fans that in turn raised the hostility meter against PSU and its fans.”
I think you are neglecting the fact that they were used to being fans of an independent and the fans chafed against things that were just part of being in a conference. They acted like it was punishment to be treated the same way everyone else was.
“Then came the ’94 vote that went against PSU, and the series of ref mistakes.”
What’s worse, the sportswriters picking NE or the presidents voting against NE in the AAU? I don’t see NE fans making it a conspiracy. NE beat #3 Miami in the Orange Bowl while PSU beat #13 OR in the Rose. NE also beat final #3 CO during the season while PSU’s best win was over final #9/14 OSU. NE never won by fewer than 10 points while PSU famously let IN get within one score. It was perfectly reasonable to think NE was the better team. The writers didn’t owe PSU anything.
“Mistakes so bad that they went beyond accidental, imo.”
Based on what? Refs not screwing up in other games? Did you see WI/ASU? OU/OR a few years ago? The 5th down? How do you get to those mistakes being intentional?
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Brain:
> and PSU didn’t join primarily for financial reasons but academic and athletic ones.
This New York Times article from 1989 doesn’t mention academic or “athletic” reasons, but it does mention financial reasons:
“The last school to join the Big Ten was Michigan State, which became a member in 1950 but did not participate fully in the conference football program until 1953. A Net Financial Gain
“For Penn State, which has been struggling to support 28 varsity sports primarily from revenue earned by its football team, joining the Big Ten should produce a net financial gain. For example, although it will have to share post-season revenue with its new partners, it will also share in such revenue earned by other Big Ten schools. It will also be able to qualify for the Rose Bowl, by far the most lucrative of the college bowl games.”
This article from Black Shoe Diaries does mention academics, but it emphasizes financial reasons:
http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2010/6/22/1523717/penn-state-history-joining-the-big
“… From this unique position Paterno could see that the future of college athletics rested in conferences. Penn State’s non-revenue sports were struggling and weighing like an anchor on the athletic program. Football was paying the bills, but the entire department was at risk of collapse if the football team ever fell on hard times.”
And also:
“In 1988 the football team went through a brutal rebuilding year and Joe Paterno suffered his first losing season going 5-6. Not only was it Paterno’s first losing season, it was Penn State’s first losing season in 49 years. Paterno wasn’t getting any younger and was openly saying he planned to retire when he turned 65, just after the 1991 season. (Ha!) Penn State President Bryce Jordan felt he needed to find better financial security for Penn State’s athletic program to ensure success in the post-Paterno era. So for that he looked west.”
Brian, what is the basis for your claim that “PSU didn’t join primarily for financial reasons but academic and athletic ones”?
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2 things:
1. I think we’re using different terms to discuss the same thing. I classified protecting the future of the AD as an athletic reason (because it also included scheduling and such) while you’re calling it a financial one. It’s two sides of the same coin.
2. My response was to him saying PSU could’ve chosen the ACC just as easily. They could have but didn’t even seriously consider it (never contacted the ACC according to the reports). Why not? Athletics and academics. There’s no evidence they looked into financial differences between the ACC and B10 (travel, TV, etc), and TV deals were much smaller back then.
When he arrived at the Big Ten in 1989, the conference had annual revenue of around $20 million.
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Brian:
> 1. I think we’re using different terms to discuss the same thing. I
> classified protecting the future of the AD as an athletic reason
> (because it also included scheduling and such) while you’re
> calling it a financial one. It’s two sides of the same coin.
So what did you mean when you said “PSU didn’t join primarily for financial reasons”? (BTW, just for context, PSU certainly didn’t join the Big Ten for scheduling.)
> 2. My response was to him saying PSU could’ve chosen the
> ACC just as easily. They could have but didn’t even seriously
> consider it (never contacted the ACC according to the reports).
> Why not? Athletics and academics. There’s no evidence they
> looked into financial differences between the ACC and B10
> (travel, TV, etc), and TV deals were much smaller back then.
Never contacted the ACC? Which reports? (And what time frame?) Without bothering to look it up at the moment, I seem to recall that Paterno referenced the possibility of joining the ACC before 1989. Do you have references for any of your assertions?
mushroomgod’s original point (“It was an incredibly profitable move for the Big 10….MUCH more so than for PSU, which could just have easily gone to the ACC.”) seems sound to me.
I’m really wondering where you’re getting your information because basically none of it jives with what I have read or seem to remember. I think you would find that it really was much more an accident of history (for example, there were very favorable personal connections in 1989) than that it was an unambiguously great-for-Penn-State plan. It’s just how things happened to play out given the financial worries and other circumstances at the time.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to seeing your sources.
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Carl,
“So what did you mean when you said “PSU didn’t join primarily for financial reasons”?”
That PSU wasn’t just making a money grab, but was worried about the smaller sports plus football. To me that’s an athletic concern more than a financial one. PSU could have afforded to stay independent and kept their teams if they really wanted to do it (see ND).
“(BTW, just for context, PSU certainly didn’t join the Big Ten for scheduling.)”
For the ability to schedule games in multiple sports as needed, that was one reason for joining a conference.
“Never contacted the ACC? Which reports? (And what time frame?)”
http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/07/penn_state_in_acc_not_big_ten.html
According to the man who was then commissioner of the Atlantic Coast Conference, he would have done everything in his considerable power to convince his league’s university presidents that inviting Penn State was a no-brainer. Gene Corrigan says Penn State would likely have become a member of the ACC and would now have been so for over two decades.
I first heard this story from then-Penn State athletics director Jim Tarman back in 1994. He told me that Corrigan called him shortly after PSU’s stunning invitation to the league became public on Dec. 14, 1989. It was an invitation fast-tracked by then-Illinois president Stan Ikenberry, a former Penn State vice provost, who was then chairman of the Big Ten presidents “Council of Ten.”
Only the league presidents knew; nobody else, including the Big Ten ADs, faculty reps and coaches, had been told. And when the ADs were gathered on a conference call and informed by their new commissioner, many were not amused.
Michigan’s Bo Schembechler, then just retired as football coach and having assumed the AD’s role, reacted with unbridled anger. He told me in 1994 that after a moment of stony silence he blurted into his phone to Delany for all to hear: “You gotta be s–tting me!”
Corrigan remembers being just as flabbergasted as everyone else, then remorseful that the ACC hadn’t thought of inviting Penn State first. Tarman told me Corrigan called him the next day and lamented: “Why didn’t you tell us you wanted in a major conference? We would’ve taken you in a heartbeat.”
“It’s true,” said Corrigan, now 85 but as spry and sharp as when he was Notre Dame athletics director in the 1980s. His first reaction upon hearing the news?
“Aww, s—!,” replied Corrigan, using the barnyard expletive with a laugh. “What were we thinking of? What were we not thinking of?
“I remember having a meeting with [associate commissioner] Tom Mickle and some of our people and I said, ‘We have been sitting here sound asleep while this thing happened.’ And that’s when we started thinking about getting Florida State.
“mushroomgod’s original point (“It was an incredibly profitable move for the Big 10….MUCH more so than for PSU, which could just have easily gone to the ACC.”) seems sound to me.”
Which is nice, but beside the point. I didn’t say it wasn’t profitable or that they couldn’t have gone to the ACC. He was talking about not understanding the anger of the fans using the profitability as a counterargument and I pointed out that fans weren’t interested in money back then (most aren’t now, either). Besides, the money was so small back then ($20M for the whole conference in 1989) that it wasn’t a major factor like it is today. Nobody then foresaw payouts like schools get now.
“I think you would find that it really was much more an accident of history (for example, there were very favorable personal connections in 1989) than that it was an unambiguously great-for-Penn-State plan.”
I have never claimed it was an unambiguously great for PSU plan. I think PSU did benefit from it in the long run (academically, athletically and financially), but certainly with costs along the way (losing independence, losing eastern ties to get midwestern ones, etc). I think they did better with the B10 than they would have with the ACC. An eastern conference would’ve been best for PSU, but that wasn’t an option.
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Carl:
> So what did you mean when you said “PSU didn’t join
> primarily for financial reasons”?
Brian:
> That PSU wasn’t just making a money grab, but was
> worried about the smaller sports plus football. To me
> that’s an athletic concern more than a financial one.
Okay, fair enough: I think we agree that it was primarily about money (to ensure support of the smaller sports), but it wasn’t primarily a money grab.
Carl:
> Never contacted the ACC? Which reports? (And what time frame?)
Brian:
> http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2013/07/penn_state_in_acc_not_big_ten.html
Brian, I’ve read that article before, and it does not support your claim that Penn State “never contacted the ACC according to the reports”. The article only says that when Penn State actually decided to accept an invitation from the Big Ten, they didn’t tell the ACC that they wanted to (were ready to) join a conference.
The article says that Corrigan would have been excited to have Penn State in the ACC, so the article itself seems to imply that there had been enough prior discussion to warrant such excitement. That’s consistent with what I’ve previously understood Paterno to have said.
That reference doesn’t support this claim either:
> They could have but didn’t even seriously consider it.
(The article says nothing about this.) Nor this one:
> Why not? Athletics and academics.
The article uses the words “athletic” or “athletics” three times, each time immediately preceding the word “directors” or “director”. The article uses the word “academic” once (“It is a much better academic institution for having been a member 23 years.”), but it doesn’t say anything about that having been a reason for Penn State’s decision to join the Big Ten instead of the ACC.
Brian, I’m not absolutely positive, but I don’t believe there are references for your claims, because I don’t believe your claims are consistent with how the history actually played out. To be clear, there is an athletic and academic fit with Big Ten, and it’s true that Penn State liked the perceived prestige; but the motivation for PSU to join a conference at all was clearly finances, not scheduling or academics.
If you do find a reference that supports any of your your claims, I would still be interested in seeing them so I could update my understanding of Penn State’s history.
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Carl,
“Brian, I’ve read that article before, and it does not support your claim that Penn State “never contacted the ACC according to the reports”.”
I disagree.
“The article says that Corrigan would have been excited to have Penn State in the ACC, so the article itself seems to imply that there had been enough prior discussion to warrant such excitement.”
He went on to say the ACC hadn’t talked about it all, indicating no knowledge on their part that PSU was even a possibility.
“> They could have but didn’t even seriously consider it.”
If they were seriously considering it, they would’ve bounced the idea off of the ACC to see what the ACC had to say. IMO.
“> Why not? Athletics and academics.”
I didn’t say the article said that. PSU’s actions said that to me.
“Brian, I’m not absolutely positive, but I don’t believe there are references for your claims, because I don’t believe your claims are consistent with how the history actually played out.”
Good for you. I don’t actually care what you believe, nor am I trying to change your mind.
“but the motivation for PSU to join a conference at all was clearly finances, not scheduling or academics.”
I think we’re talking about slightly different things. The context of that discussion was about joining the B10 over the ACC, not joining a conference in general.
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> He went on to say the ACC hadn’t talked about it all, indicating
> no knowledge on their part that PSU was even a possibility.
Brian, not knowing that something is a possibility in 1989 is not the same as either “never contacted the ACC according to the reports” or “didn’t even seriously consider it”, which were (two of) your claims.
> I didn’t say the article said that. PSU’s actions said that to me.
It’s fine to speculate; and if you are correct, then it should be easy to find references. (I’d still like to see them.)
It’s not fine to confuse speculation with fact.
What I get out of all this is that you were using speculation to prove mushroomgod wrong. Sweet.
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Carl,
“Brian, not knowing that something is a possibility in 1989 is not the same as either “never contacted the ACC according to the reports” or “didn’t even seriously consider it”, which were (two of) your claims.”
The announcement was in mid-December 1989. The call happened shortly after that. PSU joined in 1990. The reporter said he first heard the story in 1994. The former ACC commissioner was interviewed by the reporter in 2013. When in there was serious consideration or contact with the ACC supposed to have happened and not made the story?
“and if you are correct, then it should be easy to find references.”
Why? Why should it be easy? Most actions and decisions do not have readily available references for the underlying motives. That’s how many historians make a living, trying to piece together why various things happened.
“It’s not fine to confuse speculation with fact.”
Many/most things stated on this blog are opinions/speculation unless otherwise noted. Is that news to you?
“What I get out of all this is that you were using speculation to prove mushroomgod wrong.”
I never claimed to be proving him wrong. I disagreed with him.
When I disprove something, it’s fairly obvious. It doesn’t include multiple paragraphs of opinion.
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Carl:
> Brian, not knowing that something is a possibility in 1989 is
> not the same as either “never contacted the ACC according
> to the reports” or “didn’t even seriously consider it”, which
> were (two of) your claims.”
Brian:
> The announcement was in mid-December 1989. The call
> happened shortly after that. PSU joined in 1990. … When
> in there was serious consideration or contact with the ACC
> supposed to have happened and not made the story?
Paterno wanted to be in an all-sports conference since he was AD (1980-1982) and Penn State was turned down for Big East basketball membership in 1982. That leaves seven years between 1982 and 1989 for discussions with the ACC, maybe five or six years that are consistent with the Corrigan’s “we had no idea that Penn State was ready to join a conference” part of the story.
With respect to the Penn State “never seriously considered the ACC” part of the story, Penn State obviously could have given it serious consideration at any time since 1982. Paterno believed he needed to join a conference, and there weren’t many possibilities. He obviously wasn’t just waiting around for an invitation from the Big Ten, so the possibilities and implications of joining the ACC would have been considered very early on, whether they had actually talked or not. The fact that PSU did not join the ACC is not evidence that they didn’t consider the possibility seriously, especially since there was no way of knowing that joining the ACC would not eventually be forced given what Paterno believed about the future economics of college sports.
Carl:
> and if you are correct, then it should be easy to find references.
Brian:
> Why? Why should it be easy? Most actions and decisions do not
> have readily available references for the underlying motives.
Yes, you are correct, and I take back what I said there. (I didn’t realize I was wrong until I tried to Google what I believe Paterno said about ACC possibilities and discussions during the 1982-1989 period and then found that the results are swamped by either the Big East rejection, the Big Ten acceptance, or other, later conference realignment developments.)
The issue I was actually trying to address (poorly) is that when you strongly disagree with someone else’s opinions but then cannot directly support all of your own, you should just admit it. I don’t think you did that after contradicting mushroomgod’s opinions.
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Carl,
“Paterno wanted to be in an all-sports conference since he was AD (1980-1982) and Penn State was turned down for Big East basketball membership in 1982. That leaves seven years between 1982 and 1989 for discussions with the ACC, maybe five or six years that are consistent with the Corrigan’s “we had no idea that Penn State was ready to join a conference” part of the story.
With respect to the Penn State “never seriously considered the ACC” part of the story, Penn State obviously could have given it serious consideration at any time since 1982. Paterno believed he needed to join a conference, and there weren’t many possibilities. He obviously wasn’t just waiting around for an invitation from the Big Ten, so the possibilities and implications of joining the ACC would have been considered very early on, whether they had actually talked or not. The fact that PSU did not join the ACC is not evidence that they didn’t consider the possibility seriously, especially since there was no way of knowing that joining the ACC would not eventually be forced given what Paterno believed about the future economics of college sports.”
Amazing as you may find it, I don’t consider JoePa to be PSU. Post-1982, he had no power to move PSU into a conference. I only would consider it PSU talking with the ACC if it was actual decision makers on both sides.
The quotes tell me that nobody in the ACC that matters was aware PSU was looking for a home (they were caught asleep). How could PSU have seriously considered the ACC without talking to them so they could get some information? I don’t see any way he gives those same quotes if PSU had talked with the ACC in the mid-80s. I’m not saying it would be factually incorrect, but it just sounds wrong to me. YMMV.
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Brian:
> I don’t consider JoePa to be PSU. Post-1982, he had no power
> to move PSU into a conference. I only would consider it PSU
> talking with the ACC if it was actual decision makers on both sides.
Brian, I didn’t say or imply that Paterno was the one actually doing the talking with the ACC. Your response is ridiculous.
> The quotes tell me that nobody in the ACC that matters was
> aware PSU was looking for a home (they were caught asleep).
Taking Gene Corrigan’s words as literally and absolutely as you are doing is ridiculous, too. For heaven’s sake, Corrigan didn’t even become commissioner of the ACC until 1987, so it’s entirely possible that he wasn’t even aware of any previous discussions.
Everybody who was paying attention at that time knew that Penn State believed it needed to eventually join a conference. It was public knowledge. The same economic considerations were true for all major independents (Notre Dame, as always, being a special case), and people talked about it.
The questions for Penn State were which conference and when. What was so stunning was that it turned out to be the Big Ten. AFAIR, that possibility wasn’t on anyone’s radar.
It’s okay to speculate, Brian, but you should just admit up front that that’s what you’re doing. Especially when you so self-assuredly diss someone else’s POV.
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Amusing response as you dismiss Corrigan’s words with your speculation.
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Brian:
> Amusing response as you dismiss Corrigan’s words with your speculation.
Brian, you really can’t win arguments by making stuff up. 🙂
I don’t dismiss anything Corrigan said – I believe his words are both clear and accurate (except possibly that Penn State would have joined the ACC if they’d been invited). I understand that we disagree about what they mean.
But not only do Corrigan’s words simply not say or imply what you’ve been claiming, your interpretation of his words makes them inconsistent with what was publicly known at the time (e.g., that Penn State wanted to join an all-sports conference). That’s not speculation.
Specifically, Corrigan’s words – even if taken literally and absolutely – do not support these claims:
1. Penn State “never contacted the ACC according to the reports”.
2. “They (Penn State) could have but didn’t even seriously consider it.”
3. “Why not? Athletics and academics.”
As I’ve said repeatedly, so far your claims are unsupported. Speculation is fine, but you should admit it.
And you shouldn’t just make stuff up.
—
Ironically, Corrigan’s words actually DO support mushroomgod’s claim that “It was an incredibly profitable move for the Big 10….MUCH more so than for PSU, which could just have easily gone to the ACC.” 🙂
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…dont forget Illinois’ 3 or 4 touchdown lead over PSU in a nationally televised mid-November game. That coudnt’ have helped either.
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Brian and I finally agree, almost completely, on a topic. Mushroom God, you are way too kind to PSU, “way too kind”.
PSU Internet fanbase = and I’m putting it kindly, a deeply troubled, cowardly(for most of their complaints are done under Internet aliases), hypocritical, vile, irrational fanbase & their skin is ultra thin. Their fanbase wouldn’t last a year in the SEC.
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Even paranoids have enemies….and it sure seems PSU’s enemies are the Big 10 football officials, administrators, fans, and sportswriters.
There are literally thousands of ways to fix a football game with out looking incompetent. If the fix was in, this was the worst way to do it. If you are going to fix games the last thing you do is call attention to it.
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Are you kidding me here? Please don’t bring up 994 unless your can actually remember this season, or just reevaluate, carefully, the AP vote by region. No region came close to voting PSU at even 1/3 majority, including the Northeast. In fact the BIG Midwest may have given more votes to PSU, one being cast by my father. PSU barely squeaked past two mediocre BIG teams that year. Neb went on to play a Miami team that was certainly far superior to Oregon and beat them in their backyard. It’s karma as far as I’m concerned. I also definitely remember the screw job on Nebraska in the 82 game against PSU in Happy Valley, it essentially wiped out Neb’s bid for a NC while PSU won it all that year. The guy was out of bounds. You also have to remember that by 94, he CF world had been rocked by the success of Miami, thus any team who could beat them was going to get very favorable treatment, including PSU in 86.
The officiating issues are real for PSU, but most other BIG teams complain about Mi & OSU treatment as well. Officiating complaints along PSU’s whiny level also exist in other conferences in a given week, every damn year in CF.
Also, let’s carefully evaluate some of PSU”s overstatement in the BIG. Since they have joined, Wisconsin has played in more Rose Bowls. PSU has a slight head-to-head margin on Minnesota, yes I said Minnesota. They have often lost inexplicable games against other BIG schools not named Michigan or OSU in a given year, while a weaker BIG team somehow manages to resolutely beat Mi or OSU. For example, Minnesota, again, took care of Mi at the little house without any question, yet PSU puts themselves in a tight spot needing an onsides kick then a ton of luck to win, which never happened. Yet their fans complain they got screwed from victory, when getting the onsides kick was maybe 10% of the battle.
PSU Internet aliases, esp at Rivals and Scout, are some of the most twisted, biased, evil people on sports boards. Their blanket statements about the BIG transcend officiating – they say disgusting, mean spirited things about the average BIG state and fanbases, when it’s quite obvious most of them have never traveled to other BIG states.
You go to any ACC board with Duke or NCSt in front of it and there are 100 plus pages of scathing criticisms against UNC. There is a billboard literally outside Chapel Hill calling UNC a bunch of cheaters. The infighting in the SEC is legendary. This conference hires coaches from other fellow members, constantly pick off each other in recruiting. Remember the jackass who poisoned the oak trees? These sorts of matters have never been raised against the PSU & please don’t cite Sandusky, that was a universally difficult issue involving children – everybody criticized PSU. So don’t go calling the NCAA fascists, when it was in fact fascist behavior in the form of JoBots worsening the situation.
Also when it comes to PSU, a very loud, older, red neck minority is completely biased towards the Midwest and often foolishly slight the economic conditions of the Rust Belt, forgetting that eastern PA is Rust Belt central. These are the Pa halfbacks who now live in Va and NC. They don’t seem to care that the ACC has been ruled by Tobacco Road for decades, that the ACC absolutely destroyed the Big East, or that UNC may have set an untouchable bar in actual NCAA violations of the worst order. They want games they can drive to in a reasonable time frame – in other words, selfish former Pa natives looking out for themselves. Most of them seem to be non-alums as well.
You also have to remember that two of PSU”s more successful programs: wrestling and volleyball, absolutely benefit from BIG membership due to a muderers row conference schedule. Their volleyball program has greatly depended on Midwest talent & the same could be said for future hockey rosters. They also have the benefit of recruiting from, my long term opinion, the best high school basketball footprint in the country. Yet, PSU simply cannot perform well in basketball, annual basis, despite having great hs basketball in Pa & the BIG footprint.
As for the ever volatile Sandusky case, let’s be fair and say it was mostly a criminal matter. So yes the NCAA knee jerked. But Sleaze Sandusky had no business coaching on that sideline after 1993, latest. He was messing with children even before 93. And what the hell was he doing at PSU games after 1999? Were PSU coaches and administrators really this stupid? I think not. They didn’t do their jobs. Sandusky should have been nowhere near that campus after 99. They also have no one to blame but themselves for keeping JoPa a decade past his true retirement age, which was a common topic on PSU boards thoughout the 2000s minus 2005. The above are irrefutable facts as far as I am concerned & no PSU Internet freaks have ever offered valid counterarguments.
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Why 1993. The first instance was 1998 for which there were no criminal charges. Sandusky left coaching after the very next season supposedly because he wasn’t going to be head coach. I personally think he was let go because of that incident but was kept on 1 more year because PSU had a great team going into the 1999 season.
I agree the internet fan base for Penn State is a little ignorant but so is every internet fan base. Check out Ohio State sometimes. Most of these people are t-shirt fans not Alumni. I have seen internet fans of other schools smear rape victims because one of their players got busted, Hell you could even say some contributed to the suicide of a girl at Notre Dame. So to say Penn State is the most evil is ridiculous.
There is bias in refereeing in the Big 10 to the blue blood programs in Ohio State and especially Michigan but that’s against all the other teams not just Penn State. Some of it is outright corruption as there was a head referee in the Big Ten (can’t remember his name though) who actually had a shrine to Michigan football in his basement. Most is just perception and incompetence. The blue blood have been good for a very long time and get the benefit of the doubt. But that is the same for every conference. Just ask Kentucky fans of the refereeing that goes on when they play Florida. See Iowa State complaints this year. And there in lies what i think is the problem for Penn State fans: they’re not top dog in the conference. They don’t get the benefit of the doubt. College football has crappy refereeing across the board and it needs to be reformed. Instead of blaming the conference, fans at Penn State need to get on their own administrators to fight for change.
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Psuhockey,
“I agree the internet fan base for Penn State is a little ignorant but so is every internet fan base. Check out Ohio State sometimes.”
The OSU fan base, especially online, has large segments that are terrible. No doubt. But there are aspects of the PSU fan base that amaze me sometimes. I won’t categorize any group as the worst since there’s no objective measure for that and glass houses and such. But some of the post-Sandusky behavior from some PSU fans was astonishing to most of us.
“There is bias in refereeing in the Big 10 to the blue blood programs in Ohio State and especially Michigan but that’s against all the other teams not just Penn State.”
Fans in every conference claim that, but I’ve never seen proof. People just remember a handful of calls that go against them and ignore the rest.
from cfbstats.com
OSU:
Year – Penalty YPG rank in B10 (1 is best) – Opp. PYPG rank in B10 (1 is best)
2014 – 7 – 11
2013 – 9 – 4
2012 – 12 – 5
2011 – 7 – 5
2010 – 6 – 8
2009 – 5 – 9
2008 – 5 – 9
PSU:
Year – Penalty YPG rank in B10 (1 is best) – Opp. PYPG rank in B10 (1 is best)
2014 – 5 – 3
2013 – 2 – 2
2012 – 7 – 6
2011 – 6 – 10
2010 – 2 – 11
2009 – 1 – 6
2008 – 1 – 6
PSU gets called for fewer penalties and their opponents get called for more than OSU’s.
“Most is just perception and incompetence. The blue blood have been good for a very long time and get the benefit of the doubt. But that is the same for every conference. Just ask Kentucky fans of the refereeing that goes on when they play Florida. See Iowa State complaints this year.”
Agreed.
“And there in lies what i think is the problem for Penn State fans: they’re not top dog in the conference.”
That is what has the fans upset the most, I think.
“College football has crappy refereeing across the board and it needs to be reformed.”
Yes, it does. But so does the NFL sometimes. Maybe the job is just too difficult to be done well all the time.
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As an independent observer between OSU and PSU I don’t believe there is some conspiracy. Just bad officiating. I think most B1G fans notice the bad officiating more than maybe other parts of the country due to our affiliations and experience with the NFL. These are college refs and we expect them to be as good as the NFL refs. Probably never going to happen as these guys all have day jobs. That said some of the blown calls are just mind boggling.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11771928/new-sponsors-fiesta-cotton-bowls
Say hello to the Vizio Fiesta Bowl and the Goodyear Cotton Bowl.
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Kristi Dosh’s list of future OOC home and home games.
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Shoddy.
Stanford is playing @Northwestern in 2015 but that’s not on her list and NU isn’t playing @Stanford in 2016 (they’ll go back in 2019) but that _is_ on her list.
http://www.fbschedules.com/ is still the best source for college football schedules.
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jerry-palm/24770901/sec-gets-3-of-top-4-for-first-cfp-selection-committee-predicted-top-25
Jerry Palm predicts the CFP’s top 25. It’s ugly.
1. MS St
2.
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WTF?
Anyway, picking up where I left off:
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. AU
4. MS
5. AL
6. ND
7. KSU
8. AZ
9. UGA
10. OR
11. MSU
16. NE
19. OSU
25. WI
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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/jerry-palm/24770901/sec-gets-3-of-top-4-for-first-cfp-selection-committee-predicted-top-25
Sorry, that was Jerry Palm’s predicted CFP top 25. The link posted by itself and then disappeared after my follow up.
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Well, they did end up with 3 of the top 4, in the end.
1. Mississippi State
2. FSU
3. Auburn
4. Ole Miss
5. Oregon
6. Alabama
7. TCU
8. MSU
9. Kansas State
10. Notre Dame
11. Georgia
12. Arizona
13. Baylor
14. ASU
15. Nebraska
16. OSU
17. Utah
18. Oklahoma
19. LSU
20. West Virginia
21. Clemson
22. UCLA
23. East Carolina
24. Duke
25. Louisville
I think 3/4 being SEC teams (and SEC West teams, at that) is absurd. Those teams haven’t really proven they are better than any other conference’s leader. I could see Auburn, especially with its win over KSU, but Ole Miss looked terrible in losing to 2-loss LSU. In addition, if this is really who the committee feels about those SEC teams, it looks like the SEC is close to a lock to get 2 teams into the playoffs.
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I’m not sold on Ole Miss. Alabama doesn’t deserve their #3 in the national polls, so that was good to see. I don’t have any problem with their top 3, though. Overall, I like it better than the AP or Coach’s poll.
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There’s going to be a lot of games played starting this weekend. I would have liked them to wait at least another week.
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My interest will be to see how much volatility the committee has in their rankings. Will they give lower teams a chance to move up if they win big games, or do the top teams have to get upset? Do both Egg Bowl teams stay top 5 afterwards? How much does losing the Iron Bowl hurt?
It’s almost certain there’ll be 2 SEC teams in this year (SEC champ + SEC W runner up), and they may even deserve it. The other 2 spots will come down to FSU, OR, MSU, ND and the TCU/KSU winner.
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The top SEC West teams all play 2 or 3 of the other top SEC teams. No guarantee two come out in good shape. Very much in the air still as long as the committee has some volatility.
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Why not announce them unranked at this early stage:
Top 5.
Next 5
Next 5
Next 5
Next 5
That way, no school is TRULY sure where it stands. But there is some sense of order/ranking.
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Ole Miss should be below MSU and Kansas state because they don’t play a single big 5 school out of conference. Those schools shouldn’t be punished for having the courage to actually play tough out of conference games while Ole Miss shouldn’t be rewarded for rolling over FCS teams.
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The MAC has announced they’ll offer FCOA scholarships.
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http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/alabama-tennessee-sec-officiating-replay-review-102514
Mike Pereira, Fox’s CFB rules expert and former ref, calls shenanigans on the SEC.
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This one of the saddest tweets I’ve seen in a while:
“Josh Newberg @joshnewberg247
Follow
Jacques Patrick noted that his family saw the way Jimbo Fisher has defended Jameis Winston and that went a long way with his mother.
6:46 PM – 27 Oct 2014”
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I would have kicked him out after the shoplifting. The way they handled the alleged rape was disgusting.
But it may be that the recruit sees this as a “Ferguson” type issue as opposed to a “protect your stars at any cost” which is what FSU is really doing.
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But for a mom to view treating an accused rapist that way so positively? What does she think of her own son?
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Well she might be viewing it through the perspective of him being a successful Black person being falsely accused by some gold-digging female and then hounded by the media.
FSU fans sure view it that way.
I think he’s a total scumbag who not only makes FSU look bad, but their reaction makes them look even worse. But I could see her having a different perspective. Don’t know if you have been reading about the Ellis mistrial here in Atlanta (if you haven’t he was the Dekalb county CEO who was shaking down vendors for campaign contributions and dropping contracts if they didn’t pay up), but there was clearly some of that thinking among the jurors.
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Yeah, I followed it a little. I assume they’ll re-try him since the jury was 11-1 in favor of at least 1 count. He’s dirty, but that sort of crime is hard to prove conclusively.
I know her feelings might make more sense to me if I was a minority, but it’s just hard for me to picture a mom not concerned about rape allegations by a minority woman being covered up.
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http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/101770/playoff-rundown-how-the-games-could-look
The projected playoff and bowl games don’t look all that enticing to me.
Dec. 31
12:30 p.m. ET – Peach Bowl – No. 10 Notre Dame vs. No. 23 East Carolina
A yawner of a mismatch.
4 p.m. ET – Fiesta Bowl – No. 5 Oregon vs. No. 9 Kansas State
I’d swap TCU and KSU, personally.
8 p.m. ET – Orange Bowl – No. 21 Clemson vs. No. 6 Alabama
Another mismatch.
Jan. 1
12:30 p.m. ET – Cotton Bowl – No. 7 TCU vs. No. 8 Michigan State
I’d swap TCU and KSU, personally. I don’t like having a home team in a major bowl game, and KSU fans would travel just fine to TX.
5 p.m. ET – Rose Bowl – No. 2 Florida State vs. No. 3 Auburn (Semi No. 1)
A rematch from last year.
8:30 p.m. ET – Sugar Bowl – No. 1 Mississippi State vs. No. 4 Ole Miss (Semi No. 2)
A rematch from late November.
I’d tweak the seeds for better games:
1. MS St vs 4. AU (they played 10/11, AU vs MS is 11/1 and MS ST vs MS is 11/29)
2. FSU vs 3. MS
It’s not great, but at least it makes the rematch 7 weeks older.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/smartest-public-colleges-in-america-2014-10
The smartest public schools in America.
Rank – School – Ave SAT (average of 25th percentile and 75th percentile scores)
1 Georgia Institute of Technology 1385
2 University of California-Berkeley 1375
3 College of William and Mary 1365
4 United States Air Force Academy 1360
5 University of Virginia 1355
6 University of Michigan-Ann Arbor 1340
6 Colorado School of Mines 1340
8 University of California-Los Angeles 1320
9 University of Maryland-College Park 1310
10 University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill 1305
11 Ohio State University-Columbus 1300
12 Binghamton University-SUNY 1294
13 University of California-San Diego 1290
14 University of Illinois-Urbana-Champaign 1285
14 New College of Florida 1285
16 United States Military Academy (3) 1283
17 United States Naval Academy 1280
18 United States Coast Guard Academy (3) 1275
19 University of Pittsburgh 1270
20 SUNY-Geneseo 1269
21 United States Merchant Marine Academy 1267
22 University of Wisconsin-Madison 1265
22 University of Florida 1265
22 University of Minnesota-Twin Cities 1265
22 Missouri University of Science & Technology 1265
B10 – 6, 9, 11, 14, 22, 22
ACC – 1, 5, 10, 19
P12 – 2, 8
SEC – 22
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Potential TV game changer:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Innovation/2014/1029/FCC-s-Tom-Wheeler-Let-s-redefine-pay-TV-to-include-online-streaming
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Gurley gets 4 games and 40 hours:
http://www.si.com/college-football/2014/10/29/todd-gurley-georgia-bulldogs-ncaa-suspension
He misses Florida and Kentucky. Comes back for Auburn.
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UGA is appealing, but the NCAA says they cut him a break by not going beyond 4. Since he got over $3000 and did this over more than a year, I think the 4 games will stick.
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I agree with the author. The 40 hours of community service is absurd.
Even more absurd is how are they going to enforce it? He can’t be expected to do it in football season. He’ll turn pro after the bowl game.
I think the 4 games sticks. NCAA will just drag its feet for 7 more business days.
What’s gets me is the contrast between the way Manziel was handled and Gurley. I guess the NCAA message to schools and players is to just deny, deny, deny and ignore us. A&M officials went on an assault on the NCAA and everyone claiming Manziel broke the rules. In the end he got a half game suspension for no particular reason. He didn’t admit to anything. Georgia follows procedures. Gurley appears to have told the truth. He gets 4 games AND public service.
Its a broken system where schools following the rules and players being honest get punished worse than those who don’t follow the rules and lie. It creates a perverse incentive to cheat and to ignore the NCAA.
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And people wonder why UT and OU have no interest in the south east.
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http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/28/7082683/nfl-real-time-motion-tracking-by-zebra-technologies
RFID is coming to the NFL, including the ball. Finally goal line calls might make sense.
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http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/the-worldwide-cheerleader-espn-and-the-college-football-playoff-20141028
Rolling Stone calls out ESPN for their SEC bias. The author is a member of the FWAA and an FSU grad, just to be clear.
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Bob Bowlsby feels compelled to discuss why the Big 12 isn’t expanding:
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/10/29/bowlsby-doesnt-see-obvious-candidates-for-big-12-expansion/
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and there was this article based on the same meeting:
http://newsok.com/big-12-qa-with-big-12-commissioner-bob-bowlsby/article/5361578
Of note:
How is the Longhorn Network doing, and how does that impact your long-term plans for TV?
The Longhorn Network is a boulder in the road. It really is. They did something that almost no other institution in the country could do because of the population in the state, and we’re looking at some way to try and morph that around a little bit. … It really begs the question about, how are we going to get our sports in the years ahead? If technology changes in the next five years as much as it’s changed in the last five years, we’re not going to be getting our sports by cable TV. I don’t know what it’ll be. But increasingly, we’re using mobile devices … Google Network and Apple TV and things like that are coming into play. … I’m not sure the world needs another exclusive college cable network. Rather than trying to do what everybody else has done, I would much rather try to figure out what tomorrow’s technology is and get on the front side of that and be a part of what happens going forward and monetize that.
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“I would much rather try to figure out what tomorrow’s technology is and get on the front side of that…”
You still need inventory, and of a critical mass, no matter the mode of transmission.
“The super-conferences concept … has largely been a media fabrication.”
It was the Cal AD that first said everyone was trying to figure out how to get to four power conferences at a time the demise of the BE was not a given. I think it was in 2010, maybe 2011.
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http://www.usnews.com/education/best-global-universities/search?country=united-states
2014 Best Global Universities from USN&WR.
I limited the list to U.S. universities
14 University of Michigan
25 Northwestern University
27 University of Wisconsin–Madison
29 University of Minnesota–Twin Cities
34 Ohio State University
35 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
51 University of Maryland–College Park
52 Pennsylvania State University
55 Rutgers University
69 Purdue University
75 Michigan State University
114 Indiana University–Bloomington
121 University of Iowa
253 University of Nebraska–Lincoln
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Penn State adds Appalachian State to the 2018 schedule. They’d play on September 1.
http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/10/penn-state-nittany-lions-complete-2018-football-schedule/
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At least they aren’t I-AA anymore (barely).
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ESPN is reporting that Michigan’s AD is out.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11796360/dave-brandon-michigan-wolverines-ad-leaving-post
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And Hoke will follow him in a few weeks. Prepare for another run at Les Miles (as well as Harbaugh).
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Reports say they’re chasing NW’s AD.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11797551/mark-stoops-extension-worth-more-3m-year
UK gives their HC an extension worth over $3M per year. That’s the difference between the SEC and the B10. Can you imagine IU doing the same thing?
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Where B10 schools recruit for FB.
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Classless Randy Edsall/Maryland
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I’m curious to see how some of the close wins by top teams are treated by the committee this upcoming week. Do SEC teams get punished for the actual results or does the hype win out?
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Ole Miss will be interesting. Will they keep them high because they were high last week?
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Heading into the second playoff vote : 2 zero loss, 12 one loss, and 13 two loss teams
0 loss teams (excluding Marshall)
ACC | Florida State
B 12 | none
B1G | none
I ND | none
PAC | none
SEC | Mississippi State
1 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Duke
B 12 | Kansas State + Baylor + TCU
B1G | Michigan State + Ohio State + Nebraska
I ND | Notre Dame
PAC | Oregon + Arizona State
SEC | Alabama + Auburn
2 loss teams (excluding Gang of 5 teams and IND’s other than Notre Dame)
ACC | Clemson + Georgia Tech
B 12 | Oklahoma
B1G | Minnesota + Iowa + Wisconsin
I ND | none
PAC | UCLA + Arizona + Utah
SEC | Missouri + Georgia + Mississippi + LSU
.
…
…..
…
.
Week 10 holds with 2 undefeated again
FBS football = 3 of 128 remain (2.4%)
Big 5 = 2 of 64 remain (3.125%)
ACC —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
Atlantic : Florida State (8-0, 5-0)
Costal : None after Week 7
Virginia (4-5, 2-3) @ Florida State
B12 —- 0 of 10 remain | None after week 8
B1G —- 0 of 14 remain
East : NONE after Week 5 | West : NONE after Week 6
PAC —- 0 of 12 remain
North : NONE after week 6 | South : NONE after week 7
SEC —- 1 of 14 or 7.14% remain
East : NONE after Week 4
West : Mississippi State (8-0, 5-0)
FCS Tennessee – Martin (5-5, 4-3) @ Mississippi State
.
…
.
non Big 5 = 1 of 64 remain (1.5625%)
MWC : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 12 remain
SUNB : NONE after Week 3 // 0 of 11 remain
MAC : NONE after Week 4 // 0 of 13 remain
AAC : NONE after Week 5 // 0 of 11 remain
IND : NONE after Week 8 // 0 of 4 remain
CUSA : Marshall (8-0, 4-0) // 1 of 13 remain or 7.69%
Marshall @ Southern Mississippi (3-6, 1-4)
.
…
.
Drawing dead after Week 3 : Mountain West and Sun Belt
Drawing dead after Week 4 : SEC East and MAC
Drawing dead after Week 5 : B1G East and American Athletic
Drawing dead after Week 6 : B1G West and PAC North
Drawing dead after Week 7 : ACC Costal and PAC South
Drawing dead after Week 8 : IND
Drawing dead after Week 9 : none
Drawing dead after Week 10 : none
.
…
.
Bowl Eligible Week 7
ACC Florida State
B 12 Baylor
CUSA Marshall
IND Notre Dame
SEC Mississippi + Mississippi State
Bowl Eligible Week 8
ACC Louisville + Duke
B1G Michigan State + Minnesota + Nebraska
MWC Colorado State
PAC Oregon
SEC Georgia + Alabama + LSU
Bowl Eligible Week 9
ACC East Carolina
ACC Clemson + Georgia Tech
B 12 Kansas State + West Virginia + TCU
B1G Ohio State
MAC Northern Illinois
MWC Boise State
PAC Arizona State + Arizona + Utah + UCLA
SEC Missouri + Auburn
S B Georgia Southern
Bowl Eligible Week 10
ACC Boston College + Miami
B 12 Oklahoma
B1G Maryland + Iowa + Wisconsin
CUSA Louisiana Tech
MAC Western Michigan + Central Michigan
MWC Nevada + Air Force
PAC Southern California
SEC Texas A&M
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Here’s the Coaches’ poll.
http://sportspolls.usatoday.com/ncaa/football/polls/coaches-poll/
By conference.
SEC (6) #1 Miss State, #3 Auburn, #4 Bama, #13 Ole Miss, #15 LSU, #17 Georgia
Pac-12 (5) #5 Oregon, #12 Arizona State, #18 UCLA, #21 Arizona, #22T Utah
Big XII (5) #7 TCU, #9 K-State, #10 Baylor, #16 Oklahoma, #25 West Virginia
B1G (4) #6 Mich State, #11 Ohio State, #14 Nebraska, #24 Wisconsin
ACC (3) #2 Florida State, #19 Clemson, #20 Duke
IND #8 Notre Dame
CUSA #22T Marshall
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Next week’s elimination games.
#11 Ohio State at #6 Michigan State
#9 K-State at #7 TCU
#8 Notre Dame at #12 Arizona State
CFP contenders on the road facing ranked team (2 loss) teams
#4 Bama at #15 LSU – GEAUX Tigers!
#10 Baylor at #16 Oklahoma
#5 Oregon at #22 Utah
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As a supporter of Team Chaos at this point:
Go OSU, KSU (Baylor can beat them later), ASU, LSU, OU and Utah
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Too much chaos and we end up with 3 SEC West schools in the playoff.
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Maybe.
Right now:
#1-2 – 0 losses
#3-17 – 1 loss
#18-25 – 2 losses (except #23 ECU and #24 Duke)
What if FSU wins out but the whole SEC West has 2+ losses? Where would 1 loss champs from other conferences be? Or even 2 loss champs, since championships are supposed to be tie-breakers? I think chaos would hurt ND and the B12 the most since they lack a CCG.
At some point, you have to stop saying how great the SEC teams are as the losses pile up.
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But if there are a bunch of 2 loss teams to choose from, the SEC West teams probably get the nod over Big 10/Pac 12/Big 12/ACC 2 loss teams. That’s why I said too much chaos leads to too much SEC.
I don’t think any 1 loss P5 champ gets beat out by a 2 loss runnerup. Ohio St. is the only one at risk of that and I don’t think they will get beat out either. Everyone else with 1 loss has a bunch of challenges left and/or some big wins already behind them. Ohio St. just has MSU and possibly Nebraska, but that should still be enough.
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Brian – the only loss that an SEC West team has suffered, other than at the hands of another SEC West team, was an Arkansas loss to a ranked Georgia team.
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Alan from Baton Rouge,
“Brian – the only loss that an SEC West team has suffered, other than at the hands of another SEC West team, was an Arkansas loss to a ranked Georgia team.”
True. But who have they beaten?
MS St – USM, UAB, S AL, UK
AL – WV, FAU, USM, UF, TN
AU – SJSU, KSU, LT, SC
MS – Boise, Vandy, ULL, Memphis, TN
LSU – WI, Sam Houston, ULM, NMSU, UF, UK
TAMU – SC, Lamar, Rice, SMU, ULM
AR – Nicholls St, TT, NIU, UAB
I see 3 good wins in there – #9 KSU, #20 WV, and WI. WI had a big lead and blew it after injury problems crippled their D so LSU could win by 4. AU needed an ugly game by KSU (3 missed FGs, 3 TOs) to win by 6 points. AL over WV was the only easy win of the bunch and it was only by 10 points. It’s still impressive to win so many games, but it’s not like they played a ton of big games this year.
The top 2 teams in the East are a combined 1-0 against the West. That’ll change as they play each other more (the East is terrible).
In other words, the SEC West teams haven’t proven to be significantly better than other decent teams nation wide. Maybe there are just several really similar teams in the West versus one or two like that in other conferences. A second loss by all the West teams might well indicate that.
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Looking at the 27 teams with 0,1,or 2 losses at 2 or 3 hardest games remaining
– not counting CCG’s
Florida State – Miami and Florida
Mississippi State – Alabama and Mississippi
Duke – Virginia Tech and UNC
Kansas State – TCU, West Virginia, Baylor
Baylor – Oklahoma and Kansas State
TCU – Kansas State and Texas
Michigan State – Ohio State and Penn State
Ohio State – Michigan State and Minnesota
Nebraska – Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Iowa
Notre Dame – Arizona State, Louisville, and Southern California
Oregon – Utah and Oregon State
Arizona State – Notre Dame and Arizona
Alabama – LSU, Mississippi State, and Auburn
Auburn – Georgia, and Alabama
Georgia Tech – Clemson and Georgia
Clemson – Georgia Tech and South Carolina
Oklahoma – Baylor and Oklahoma State
Minnesota – Iowa, Ohio State, Nebraska, and Wisconsin (go gophers!)
(seriously, if gophers sweep with what they have left, congrats)
Iowa – Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Nebraska
Wisconsin – Nebraska, Iowa, and Minnesota
UCLA – Washington and Southern California
Arizona – Utah and Arizona State
Utah – Oregon, and Arizona
LSU – Alabama and Arkansas
Mississippi – Arkansas and Mississippi State
Missouri – Tennessee and Arkansas
Georgia – Kentucky, Auburn, and Georgia Tech
Aside from the ACC, the remaining 25 all have 1 or 2 possible losses and we could see a possible team with 2 losses still make it. Duke at only 1 loss and possibly the easiest remaining schedule may have the easiest path followed by Florida State.
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I can’t see any reasonable scenario where a team CURRENTLY with 2 losses makes the final 4.
LSU and Ole Miss just require too many things to fall the right way. Same with UCLA and Oklahoma. Don’t think any other current 2 loss team has the resume to make the top 4. Obviously, CSU and Marshall won’t make it.
So that means the top 4 come from this group:
FSU
Duke
Notre Dame
Mississippi St.
Auburn
Alabama
TCU
Baylor
Kansas St.
Oregon
Arizona St.
Ohio St.
Michigan St.
Nebraska
One of those 14 will be the playoff champ this year.
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Bullet – here’s what it would take for LSU to go the SEC CG. I wouldn’t count out any 2 loss SEC champion. It has happened before. Possible, but not probable.
1. LSU beats Alabama (its 2nd loss), Arkansas and Texas A&M.
2. Georgia beats Auburn (its 2nd loss). Gurley will be back for that game.
3. Alabama beats Mississippi State (its first loss), beats Auburn (its 3rd loss)
4. Ole Miss beats Mississippi State (its 2nd loss), beats Arkansas. Ole Miss hosts Miss State in the Egg Bowl, but it will be tough for the Rebels to recover from the loss Teadwell, their biggest playmaker.
If this happens, here’s the SECW final standings.
Alabama: 6-2
LSU: 6-2
Ole Miss: 6-2
Mississippi State: 6-2
Auburn: 5-3
In the game between the 4 tied teams, LSU and Ole Miss are 2-1. Alabama and Mississippi State are 1-2 and eliminated. LSU beat Ole Miss in head-to-head.
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@ bullet
While I am not saying any 2 loss team has a shot as of today, I am saying all 12 schools with 1 loss could get a second one. If that happens then any 2 loss school may have a shot especially as we do not know how the committee will value the CCG’s. By default any 2 loss team still has a shot until we see how many 1 loss schools get a second loss. This means as of today they still have a chance. With the games listed above, by default both the 1 loss and 2 loss lists should shrink considerably.
If Gophers win out and win the B1G CCG they will by default kill off 3-5 B1G potential slots just by who and how they play out the season. If Blue Devils win out, and win their CCG, they might get in even tho at this time it does not seem to have a high probability of happening. This week Louisville and West Virginia picked up their 3rd loss which should be a definite break point for any playoff shot. if LSU wins from here on out, including the SEC CCG, they have a possibility. If they lose to Alabama this weekend, it would be their 3rd loss and drop them from the pool.
To further illustrate
Gophers win, handing Iowa loss #3 and removing Iowa from list of 27
Gophers win, handing Ohio State loss #2, and dropping Buckeyes to 2 loss list
Gophers win, handing Nebraska loss #2, and dropping Big Red to 2 loss list
Gophers win, handing Wisconsin loss #3 and removing Badgers from list of 27
Gophers land in B1G CCG with 2 losses and win finishing 11-2. At this point the Gophers are probably in the playoffs as the B1G representative. Even with 2 losses they may jump a 1 loss Baylor who has a weak schedule and does not play the 13th game.
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That’s my point Alan. LSU needs Ole Miss to win out in addition to all the other things. Too many things need to happen right for LSU to get to the SEC ccg. MSU and Auburn both have to lose twice.
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Sorry Duffman. You are totally delusional about Minnesota. There may be some 3 loss teams get picked before Minnesota. Note that 3 loss West Virginia is higher in the human polls than Minnesota right now.
Minnesota has a decent finishing schedule, but they have only played 2 teams with a winning record so far, TCU who beat them 30-7 and 5-4 Middle Tennessee. And Minnesota lost to Illinois.
There may be a two loss team get in the playoffs, but as I mentioned with LSU, too many things have to happen right for the teams now with 2 losses. If its a 2 loss team, it will be someone now with 1 loss.
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@ bullet
It is not delusion, it is simple math.
If you have no 0 loss or 1 loss teams in the end then any 2 loss team is viable. As of right now that probability is limited to 27 teams – not counting Marshall – and it is still possible. Many if not all can have 2 losses at seasons end, and some of the 27 already painted with 2 will get a 3rd that eliminates them because of their remaining schedules.
Delusional would be saying Gophers are 100% playoff bound.
Reality would be saying Gophers are 2% playoff bound.
My position is the possibility exists even if the probability is low. How exactly is that delusional?
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Despite what the Mississippi schools have done this year, most schools cannot escape their reputations. Even at 11-2, a Minnesota B1G champ just eliminates the B1G from contention. Everyone outside the region and many within will just assume that B1G football this year is even worse than what ESPN has been saying.
The same goes for Duke. If Duke upsets FSU in the ACC CCG will a 12-1 Duke be selected instead of a 12-1 FSU? Is the ACC going to get half of the playoff slots? I think it is more likely that the committee reevaluates the strength of the ACC and just leaves both out of the playoffs.
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Assume FSU and ND win out and the other P5 conferences produce 1 loss champs. What would the committee do if 2 loss Missouri defeats 1 loss MSU/Alabama/Auburn in the SEC CG? Or a 2 loss SECW champ? Could they possibly select a one or two loss SECW runner-up over the conference champ and the conference runner-up? Is there a plausible scenario that has zero SEC teams participating in the playoff?
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“If you have no 0 loss or 1 loss teams in the end then any 2 loss team is viable. As of right now that probability is limited to 27 teams – not counting Marshall – and it is still possible.”
If its math, the answer isn’t 2% … the odds of enough games breaking in the upset direction to bring multiple 2-loss schools into the CFP may be higher than 2%, but some teams have got to be winning those upsets. The odds that Minnesota wins out are down in the under 10% territory, the odds that there is one or more slots open to two loss teams is also long odds … there’s where we are hitting something plausibly in the 2% territory.
But given a Miracle Season Gophers Big Ten CCG win, and given a November with the bumper crop up upsets required to bring any two loss schools into contention, the current CFP rankings suggests the likely result will be two SEC schools in the CFP, and with only two more spots to pick from … , the odds that a Miracle Year Gophers school takes one of those spots is down there in very long odds territory in its own right … so its more like <10% x <10% x <10% probability.
So down in the 0.1%~0.001% range, which we normally assign a 0% to, but add the qualifier, "but you never know for sure, because lots can happen".
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2% is about 1000x their actual probability. Saying they would make it above a 1 loss Baylor because of strength of schedule is seriously delusional. While Minnesota winning out will no longer have to claim Middle Tennessee as their signature win, Baylor has a #9 and #18 ahead and already has a win over a top 10 team (the same one who thrashed Minnesota) and their only loss is to a ranked team, not to a team like Illinois.
Minnesota winning out will tend to degrade people’s view of the Big 10 more than lifting up Minnesota.
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Minnesota might be viewed differently if their conference loss was to Nebraska instead of a loss to Illinois.
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Not that the coaches rely on records or anything, but…
#1-2 – 0 losses
#3-12 – 1 loss
#13 – 2 losses (Ole Miss)
#14 – 1 loss (NE)
#15-19 – 2 losses
#20 – 1 loss (Duke)
#21-22 – 2 losses
#23 – 0 losses (Marshall)
#24-25 – 2 losses
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I’m interested to see if the CFP committee slots Ole Miss next to Oklahoma at the start of the two loss teams or will they be sitting in front of some one loss teams like the coaches.
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http://www.elevenwarriors.com/forum/college-sports/2014/11/42833/i-wonder-what-mike-pereira-has-to-say
Oops. Officials let Auburn run a play with 12 men last night. I guess it isn’t just B10 refs who stink.
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Big 12 are leaving a lot to be desired these days.
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http://collegefootball.ap.org/poll
New AP poll
1. MS St
2. FSU
3. AU
4. AL
5. OR
6. TCU
7. MSU
8. ND
9. KSU
10. Baylor
12. Ole Miss
13. OSU
15. NE
17. UGA
25. WI
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It looks like Citrus Bowl Stadium may finally be worthy of having the next best SEC and B1G teams (outside of the CFP) play there. In my two trips there, it was unquestionably the worst bowl stadium I have ever seen, and I’ve attended a lot of bowl games.
Did y’all know that its now called the Buffalo Wild Wings Citrus Bowl? Cap One is now the Orange Bowl sponsor.
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Update on Michigan AD opening- who they are targeting, why Brandon resigned, etc…
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2014/11/03/Colleges/Michigan.aspx
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Entertaining article out of Omaha. Nebraska just can’t get no respect.
http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mad-chatter-how-west-virginia-football-stole-all-of-nebraska/article_a33a3bae-636c-11e4-9404-0017a43b2370.html
Mad Chatter: How West Virginia football stole all of Nebraska’s fun
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Dirk is just trolling, feel free to ignore him.
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On an election day, this article is appropriate-Democrats don’t like football (at least educated ones). Everyone else does.
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I believe they still like to watch. They just don’t want their kids participating in as high a number. If concussion/injury concerns could be nearly eliminated I’m sure the participation would return.
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http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings/_/poll/21
CFP rankings:
1. MS St – plays I-AA
2. FSU – plays UVA
3. AU – plays TAMU
4. OR – plays #17 Utah
5. AL – plays #16 LSU
6. TCU – plays #7 KSU
7. KSU – plays #6 TCU
8. MSU – plays #14 OSU
9. ASU – plays #10 ND
10. ND – plays #9 ASU
11. MS – plays I-AA
12. Baylor – plays #15 OU
13. NE – plays #25 WI
14. OSU – plays #8 MSU
25. WI – plays #13 NE
Baylor should be above MS to me. Both have a good win (AL, TCU) but MS is coming off of back to back losses and lost their top WR.
There should be a lot of changes with all those ranked teams playing each other. I hope the committee is willing to move teams when 1 plays a tough game and the other plays a I-AA cupcake.
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http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/classrankings/_/class/2015/date/20141105
ESPN updated their recruiting class rankings, which reminded me how alive oversigning is. In general, their class rankings track with class size for the top 20 (#1-11 all have 20+, then it drops from 18 down to 14 kids fairly smoothly).
There are 3 major outliers in the top 20. #6 TN and #8 SC both have 26 kids while the rest of #4 – #9 have 20 kids. Then comes #10 MS St with 31 kids. None of those 3 have the excuses of coming off sanctions and only TN had a recent coaching change.
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